[Poll] As A *Player*, Do You Enjoy Low-Magic/Grim&Gritty Campaigns?

[Gothmog]

I much prefer playing in and running low magic games. A spellcaster in a low magic game is something special and rare, and magic can still evoke a sense of of wonder. Player tactics involving magic, while not as powerful in a high magic game, more often at least partially work due to lack of countermeasures to every contingency. Plus, IME, players are much less predictable and more inventive in coming up with ways to solve problems in a low magic game since they don't have access to tons of magic.

I've also never played in a normal to high magic game in 20 years of gaming that didn't break down completely in a magical arms race of PC vs PC to keep up in effectiveness, and PCs vs NPCs magical plans and countermeasures. Players also tend to behave in a MUCH more predictable manner in high magic games, using the same tactics every fight or for every problem (I'm looking at you scry/buff/teleport and greater invis/fly/fireball). And from a player's perspective, I've seen plot railroading and spellcaster ineffectiveness MUCH more often in high magic games because EVERY NPC seems to have counterspells or magic items that absolutely prevent any spells cast (divination, charms, illusions, etc) from working. To me, THAT is boring, and I enjoy coming up with innovative plans rather than nickel-and-diming NPCs to death with a barrage of magic.

 

[Gothmog]

Y'know, I read this accusation a lot, and I have to ask: Is this really the GM forcing players to be predictable?

It seems to me that it's more related to the player; without all the magic options, they can't come up with anything imaginative, and thus try to blame to GM for their own lacking of creativity. This only adds weight to the assertion that magic is a crutch for many players; remove the crutch and they can't walk.

Yep, I think you've hit on an important point here. Many players only think in terms of how to use their magic to solve a solution, and look for the "optimal" combination of powers to do so (scry/buff/teleport and greater invis/fly/fireball for example). Without magic there to be their crutch, such players are lost when asked to find a non-magical solution to a problem, and blame the DM for "nerfing" their abilities, when the deficiency is in fact theirs. I'm lucky not to have such players, but I have seen this exact point illustrated dozens of times over the years I have been gaming.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

I voted no to low-magic.

Low-magic indicates that the DM wants his or her Players to have fewer options and to behave more predictably.

Have you ever spoken to a DM who wanted to use a magic level comparable to myth, legend, or fantasy literature to capture the feel of that source?
How about a DM who feels that players can more easily relate to a world that is at least superficially similar to some part of Earth history?
What about DMs who find it impossible to accurately judge the impact on society of having a lie-detection mechanism that actually works (unlike the polygraph, which just gives a +2 to Sense Motive) and can be used subtly?

 

[kamosa]

Y'know, I read this accusation a lot, and I have to ask: Is this really the GM forcing players to be predictable?

It seems to me that it's more related to the player; without all the magic options, they can't come up with anything imaginative, and thus try to blame to GM for their own lacking of creativity. This only adds weight to the assertion that magic is a crutch for many players; remove the crutch and they can't walk.

You know if one student fails you blame that student, if the whole class fails you blame the teacher.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

You know if one student fails you blame that student, if the whole class fails you blame the teacher.

That would be Wizards of the Coast, wouldn't it?

 

[kamosa]

That would be Wizards of the Coast, wouldn't it?

No, that would be the GM running the game. If one player is not creative, that' s a player problem. If your whole group isn't creative, that's a GM problem.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

No, that would be the GM running the game. If one player is not creative, that' s a player problem. If your whole group isn't creative, that's a GM problem.

Following your reasoning, then, I'm a great GM (thanks!) and either tonym has a problem or his GM does.

 

[Azlan]

From reading the posts here, it appears that some players are passionate and even polarized about what kind of campaigns they prefer.

But from taking a look at the poll results, it appears the reality is that, as of this moment, roughly 35% of the players here prefer their campaigns "low-magic and/or grim & gritty", while 40% of the players here do not, and the remaining 25% have no preference one way or the other.

So, my conclusion is that a "low-magic and/or grim & gritty" campaign setting/style is both a worthy and popular alternative to the standard, high fantasy campaign setting/style; and that neither campaign setting/style is inferior or somehow lacking, when compared to the other. (And the same goes for the players who prefer one over the other.)

Myself, I prefer a "low-magic and/or grim & gritty" campaign setting/style, but I know that standard, high fantasy campaigns can be lots of fun as well. In fact, the campaign I'm currently DM'ing (and enjoying) falls into the latter category, not the former. (BTW: It's a Forgotten Realms campaign, titled, "Defenders of the Dalelands".)

 

[kamosa]

Following your reasoning, then, I'm a great GM (thanks!) and either tonym has a problem or his GM does.

A legend in your own mind

 

[milotha]

Y'know, I read this accusation a lot, and I have to ask: Is this really the GM forcing players to be predictable?

It seems to me that it's more related to the player; without all the magic options, they can't come up with anything imaginative, and thus try to blame to GM for their own lacking of creativity. This only adds weight to the assertion that magic is a crutch for many players; remove the crutch and they can't walk.

In my experiences, a truly creative player can be quite effective with spells. Most of the more imaginative and creative players I've seen love the tactics and strategy of playing a spell caster. Sure, anyone can play a spell caster, but playing one effectively is a true art form. Try surviving to 9th level with only 11 hp and a crummy AC.

Whereas, there is nothing more uncreative then swinging a sword to solve a situation. Of for that matter rolling a d20 on a skill check.

Just because magic exists in a world doesn't mean that the players lack creativity. I find that a good GM can usually inspire a group to be creative regardless of magic level. If the group is failing, maybe the GM should find a way to solve it without blaming the players.