D&D General Poll: How tough should 20th Level Fighters be? (MCU edition)

[Cadence]

For those who don't like super-heroes in their D&D...

D&D General - Fighters of Fantasy Literature - Tier List and Ranking! (Vote once per day through February 14th).

There have been many heroes in fantasy literature that make there way by (mostly) being a "Fighter". (Maybe Barbarian, Ranger, Battlemaster, Monk, or Rogue multi-classing in there too; and maybe in a fantasy movie). So which tier do they go in? Who do you love? Vote until 11:59PM ET on...

www.enworld.org

 

[steeldragons]

20th Level Fighter - Cap
20th Level Barbarian - Hulk
20th Level Artificer - Iron Man
20th Level Paladin - Thor
20th Level Monk - Black Panther
20th Level Rogue - Loki
20th Level Sorcerer - Captain Marvel
20th Level Wizard - Dr Strange
20th Level Bard - Star Lord
20th Level Ranger - ???
20th Level Cleric - ???

Rogue is Black Widow.
Ranger is Hawkeye.
The Trickery Domain Cleric is, literally, Loki's powers...direct rip off. Plus ability to wear armor? Adequate ability to use weapons/hand-to-hand?
The 20th level Cleric is Loki.

The rest seem pretty spot on.

 

[Cadence]

20th Level Bard - Star Lord

Wow. Bards are useless!

 

[Oofta]

? I said Hulk clearly has Epic Boons, the 5e equivalent of Epic Levels. And he's obviously a Barbarian not Fighter.
The CGI tanks in MCU always seem pretty weightless to me, so the in-game/in-world impact of throwing them isn't much. Thinking of the big fight with Hydra at the start of one of the films, Hulk throws a (light) Hydra tank, but he doesn't seem to have all that much more impact on the combat than several of the other Avengers. It's not at all obvious that he's on a different power scale in-universe.

I think it was the first Hulk movie had him throwing around Abrams tanks so it depends on the movie. Later movies have him destroy a Chitauri Leviathan by punching it.

I'm just saying that in my opinion The Hulk is so outside of D&D levels of strength that there's no comparison.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Wow. Bards are useless!

Well, this is Star Lord we're talking about...

 

[Gammadoodler]

The issue is that having played and DMed up to 20th level I don't have a problem with 20th level fighters as they currently work.

That part is fine. I disagree but it's fine.

The problem is that the logic in the post goes.

The level 20 fighter can only do this..
The Hulk can do much more crazy stuff..
Am I crazy for thinking a level 20 fighter isn't the Hulk?

And the answer is..of course you aren't crazy for thinking that.

But, no one has actually said that the level 20 fighter is like the Hulk. Some people have said that they should be. And your comparison is broadly irrelevant to whether that is true or not.

 

[S'mon]

I think it was the first Hulk movie had him throwing around Abrams tanks so it depends on the movie. Later movies have him destroy a Chitauri Leviathan by punching it.

I'm just saying that in my opinion The Hulk is so outside of D&D levels of strength that there's no comparison.

I'd hardly be surprised if a 5e adventure had the Tarrasque throwing around Abrams tanks, or their weight equivalent.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well, I can't say I'm surprised BP/Cap is the largest group by far (nearly triple any other group) or that it contains the high end of the "lower" half of the spread.

I would personally be all in favor of everything above that point being Epic levels (21-30) and move (at least) 7-9th level spells into that range.

 

[Oofta]

That part is fine. I disagree but it's fine.

The problem is that the logic in the post goes.

The level 20 fighter can only do this..
The Hulk can do much more crazy stuff..
Am I crazy for thinking a level 20 fighter isn't the Hulk?

And the answer is..of course you aren't crazy for thinking that.

But, no one has actually said that the level 20 fighter is like the Hulk. Some people have said that they should be. And your comparison is broadly irrelevant to whether that is true or not.

That's like saying that my toy Tonka truck should be a real truck that can haul tons of rock. It's not even apples to oranges, it's a grape to an award winning sized pumpkin.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

More reasons to see Thor as a 20th level fighter: without a magic weapon, he's badass but still subject to being beaten down by a horde of mooks. In Thor 1, he's grappled by orderlies (who aren't high CR guys), which makes sense: it took four of them, and even if he's got a +11 athletics to their +5, they're being helped and have to try a few times before they finally get him. They only need to win the opposed roll once. He then fails a con save vs sedative (unlucky on his part, because Indomitable gives him a couple tries) but once he's asleep he's down.

Later on we see him fully healed but unequipped vs a SHIELD Strike team (CR 5 or so each) - no one's trying to kill anyone but Thor is able to get through them without getting dropped, although he does need to work at it and is tired by the time he gets to Mjollnir (low hp) - and it's heavily implied that Hawkeye (level 20 ranger with a minor magic bow) could have taken him out - pretty easily at that point.

Umm... all this is when Odin has taken away his powers and essentially made him a human. He's just normal buff dude with some skills. And no, he normally doesn't need to have Mjölnir to have his powers, he is a god, they're part of him.