D&D General Poll: How tough should 20th Level Fighters be? (MCU edition)

[Zubatcarteira]

In the first movie, Odin took away all of Thor's power, not just the hammer. He was a normal dude for most of it, although with all the experience of a god so he could still fight very well. When the hammer is destroyed in the third movie, he still keeps his lightning and super strength since they don't have to do with the hammer.

 

[Oofta]

almost all the street level heroes (not all) are fighter/monk/rogues that have some supernatural (weather in story or not) bonus.

Yeah, most street level heroes aren't The Punisher blowing away bad guys, and chopping someone in half with a sword wouldn't work either. We're supposed to just accept that the nameless goon that got thrown across the room and hit the wall hard enough to break tiles is going to be perfectly fine when they wake up.

It's a different tone and look most of the time, hence the fisticuffs.

 

[Oofta]

The issue here is that you are taking the current level 20 fighter is and using that like it's the appropriate yardstick. The question is what should it be.

The Hulk might..might..be bit much, but there is plenty of room between Hulk power and D&D fighter power to make adjustments. The fighter can still be part of a team, even if they don't need to rely on Dr. Strange do all the meaningful work for them.

The issue is that having played and DMed up to 20th level I don't have a problem with 20th level fighters as they currently work.

 

[HammerMan]

Yeah, most street level heroes aren't The Punisher blowing away bad guys, and chopping someone in half with a sword wouldn't work either. We're supposed to just accept that the nameless goon that got thrown across the room and hit the wall hard enough to break tiles is going to be perfectly fine when they wake up.

It's a different tone and look most of the time, hence the fisticuffs.

"I'm batman, and I don't kill... but I throw people through walls and regularly knock people out"

"Um, Mr wayne you do know that if you hit someone that hard...." that person just realized this crazy guy isn't the one you wnat to correct...

 

[Amrûnril]

I guess what I don't understand is why the leveling system doesn't already accomplish this goal. If the power fantasy of the group doesn't extend past the abilities you get at character level 5, they can just keep adventuring at character level 5.

Why do you need separate power level caps for a system that already has the tools to manage power levels?

This is the approach I generally take, but it does come with some limitations. With only fewer levels, all of a character's intrinsic power growth has to be condensed into a small number of discrete events, rather than occurring more gradually. You also miss out on a lot of customization: characters may only get one feat or ASI, and high level class-subclass abilities never see play (even those that don't dramatically increase characters' power).

 

[OB1]

20th Level Fighter - Cap
20th Level Barbarian - Hulk
20th Level Artificer - Iron Man
20th Level Paladin - Thor
20th Level Monk - Black Panther
20th Level Rogue - Loki
20th Level Sorcerer - Captain Marvel
20th Level Wizard - Dr Strange
20th Level Bard - Star Lord
20th Level Ranger - ???
20th Level Cleric - ???

 

[HammerMan]

20th Level Fighter - Cap
20th Level Barbarian - Hulk
20th Level Artificer - Iron Man
20th Level Paladin - Thor
20th Level Monk - Black Panther
20th Level Rogue - Loki
20th Level Sorcerer - Captain Marvel
20th Level Wizard - Dr Strange
20th Level Bard - Star Lord
20th Level Ranger - ???
20th Level Cleric - ???

ranger is hawkeye and monk can also be spiderman

 

[S'mon]

If we assume strength 30 and large size somehow the lifting capacity would be 3,600 pounds. With powerful build that goes up to 7,200. That's 3.6 tons a tiny, tiny percent of The Hulk's MCU capacity guesstimate of 100 tons. Depending on which movie you use as a guide, Hulk can toss around tanks weighing over 50 tons.

That's one heck of an epic boon you're handing out especially since a 20th level fighter isn't even epic levels yet.

? I said Hulk clearly has Epic Boons, the 5e equivalent of Epic Levels. And he's obviously a Barbarian not Fighter.
The CGI tanks in MCU always seem pretty weightless to me, so the in-game/in-world impact of throwing them isn't much. Thinking of the big fight with Hydra at the start of one of the films, Hulk throws a (light) Hydra tank, but he doesn't seem to have all that much more impact on the combat than several of the other Avengers. It's not at all obvious that he's on a different power scale in-universe.

 

[S'mon]

If we assume strength 30 and large size somehow the lifting capacity would be 3,600 pounds. With powerful build that goes up to 7,200. That's 3.6 tons a tiny, tiny percent of The Hulk's MCU capacity guesstimate of 100 tons. Depending on which movie you use as a guide, Hulk can toss around tanks weighing over 50 tons.

That's one heck of an epic boon you're handing out especially since a 20th level fighter isn't even epic levels yet.

Oh, he has to make DC 30 Athletics checks to toss 50 ton tanks. Luckily he's a Barb-20 with STR 30 so can't fail the roll.

Edit: My son's many-Epic-boons 8' tall Barb-20 dragonborn with STR 30 CON 30 AC 30 et al feels pretty Hulk-ish to me; he likes to use his auto-DC-30 Athletics and magic gauntlets to do stuff like rip open the Gates of Hell, punch through castle walls etc. Not sure I'd let him lift 50 or 100 tons, but he can fly with his draconic wings, so it evens out. He likes to hunt ancient/wyrm/great wyrm dragons for fun and loot.

 

[HammerMan]

Hulk throws a Hydra tank, but he doesn't seem to have all that much more impact on the combat than several of the other Avengers. It's not at all obvious that he's on a different power scale in-universe.

yup... Mutants and Masterminds (and 4e D&D) 101. IF I have a +7 to hit you becuse I have super agility, and the other guy has +7 to hit becuse of computer assist, and this other person has +7 to hit due to strength...we all roll and add 7. If you deal 14 (3d6+5) damage because with agility you place the blow just right and the other guy does 14(2d10+3) due to his bionic arm, and this other person does super strength smash of 14(4d4+4) it is all +7 to hit about 14 damage...