D&D General Poll: How tough should 20th Level Fighters be? (MCU edition)

[Willie the Duck]

I guess the question is..who holds these views such that the incompatibility is irreconcilable? Fighter players, DMs, caster players? Basically who gets served in each if these variants?

And a follow up would be..in each of the variants, do the other classes' power levels stay the same?

The views are people with different power fantasies. Some people want to play as a real-world bad-to-the-bone figure and others as Fionn mac Cumhaill and others as Thor or Superman.

In each case it ought serve the framing of the power fantasy for gaming group. In each of these respective games the casters should be relatively balanced against the fighters of the same level.

 

[Amrûnril]

If we're holding the power level of spellcasters constant, I think the answer needs to be somewhere in the Hulk/Thanos/Captain Marvel range (since power levels vary depending on both in-universe conditions and out-of-universe plot needs, I don't think trying to be more granular than that is a useful exercise). This is a level where wizards can cast spells like Meteor Swarm and Wish, after all.

Personally, I'm not particularly interested in playing at this power level, but it should exist for people who are. I don't have strong feelings about whether it should be represented as level 20 or as extended "epic" levels.

 

[S'mon]

Is Cap at least multi-classed into "Warlord"? For the tactics and yelling Avengers Assemble to get them pumped up?

Battlemaster?

 

[S'mon]

If we're holding the power level of spellcasters constant, I think the answer needs to be somewhere in the Hulk/Thanos/Captain Marvel range (since power levels vary depending on both in-universe conditions and out-of-universe plot needs, I don't think trying to be more granular than that is a useful exercise). This is a level where wizards can cast spells like Meteor Swarm and Wish, after all.

Personally, I'm not particularly interested in playing at this power level, but it should exist for people who are. I don't have strong feelings about whether it should be represented as level 20 or as extended "epic" levels.

Well the game is designed around 1 level 9 spell slot use every 6-8 encounters, if you want the Fighter & Wizard to be reasonably balanced.

 

[Oofta]

Is Cap at least multi-classed into "Warlord"? For the tactics and yelling Avengers Assemble to get them pumped up?

He has the leadership feat.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Battlemaster?

Hahahaha. Battlemaster.

Na, Cap is actually capable of leading people and using techniques more than once in a fight.

 

[Oofta]

So I'm in the minority when I look at The Hulk who can lift 100 tons, then look at a 20th level fighter who without magic can lift 600 pounds? That even with magic maxes out at less than half a ton? Or that The Hulk takes direct fire from heavy artillery without even flinching?

I get it. Fighters take on demons and dragons as part of a team. But they don't take out a massive warship by punching it. They don't toss tanks around like frisbees. They would die under a barrage from multiple chitauri warships instead of just being slightly miffed. That's just the MCU version of Hulk which is significantly less powerful than some comic book iterations, which frankly get a little bonkers.

Most high powered superheroes are in a completely different league to me. D&D is a different genre than superheroes. Could there be a "Mythic Heroes" D20 system? Sure. But it would be a different game.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I get it. Fighters take on demons and dragons as part of a team.

The water boys.

 

[nevin]

Sure he can. He's probably getting in a good pop...one in three or four attacks...and repeatedly having America's ass handed to him/knocked down. But as we all know, he can do this all day. (and heal fast in between knock outs).

He'd hold his own...even if he couldn't kill it without grabbing some supernatural help: actual magic, advanced tech, thunder god, whatever you have lying around.

absolutely. Cap probably has fast healing 50 or 100, a dex that would make some gods jealous, he'd be regenerating/ avoiding damage as fast as average balor output. the Balor would have to get lucky and crit several times to take him down.

 

[Gammadoodler]

The views are people with different power fantasies. Some people want to play as a real-world bad-to-the-bone figure and others as Fionn mac Cumhaill and others as Thor or Superman.

In each case it ought serve the framing of the power fantasy for gaming group. In each of these respective games the casters should be relatively balanced against the fighters of the same level.

I guess what I don't understand is why the leveling system doesn't already accomplish this goal. If the power fantasy of the group doesn't extend past the abilities you get at character level 5, they can just keep adventuring at character level 5.

Why do you need separate power level caps for a system that already has the tools to manage power levels?