D&D 5E Poll on the Reaper: is damage on missed melee attack roll believable and balanced?

[El Mahdi]

Easier said than done. The fan base is so polarized on some things that Wizards simply cannot win. Take the dragonborn, for example: if they include that race in the Player's Handbook, about 50% of their fans will howl in outrage. If they do not include it in the Player's Handbook, the other 50% of their fans will howl in outrage. They can't do both, so "compromise" is out of the question. No matter what they do, half their fans will be outraged.

Now, repeat this exercise, but instead of "dragonborn," use tieflings. Or warlords. Or warlocks, healing surges, or whatever definition of "hit point" is in style these days. The fan base becomes less and less satisfied as a whole with each decision they make.

The online surveys and playtesting will help a lot at first, by helping people feel involved, like they have some influence over the direction of the game. But when the final product hits the shelves, more of these fans will be frowning than smiling.

Maybe...Maybe Not. It's certainly possible, but I think they can pull it off for most people. I'm definitely in so far. This small issue wouldn't keep me from buying the game, unless it was endemic throughout the whole design...but I doubt it will be.

But I do know for a certainty that things like this won't be addressed unless we provide them feedback like in this thread. These threads actually make me optimistic that this will turn out to be quite awesome.

 

[Bedrockgames]

So to recap when 60-70% is against you, it is about how much it matters not numbers???

Please tell me that is a joke this thread shows (and only this thread) 2/3+ of people want it to stay... Going by this data don't change the feat

Both the numbers and the intensity matter.

It is about how divided the D&D community is. If 30-40 percent of the community really, really, strongly dislikes the mechamic, they could loose a large chunk of potential customers. They are trying to unite the base. That is their stated goal. My point was two fold. One: a single poll on en world isn't much to go on (maybe on wotc 95 percent of the people love it, and on rpgnet 30 percent love it...who knows). Two: given the position wotc is in, and their desogn goals, they do need to be cautious about pleasing 60 percent of the people while displeasing 40 percent. If I were them I would want numbers much closer to 90 percent on a mechanic like this.

 

[Herschel]

I don't see a problem in "miss" damage killing an enemy. Nowhere in D&D I've seen a definition of "hit". As far as I can see, hitting just means delivering an amount of damage that reduces the enemy's HP pool (and HP are vague as well). Damage on a miss just means that your enemy will never avoid your attack without expending some resources, and killing on a miss means that your Reaper will never "miss" the chance to deliver a killing blow.

Yeah, a "miss" isn't necessarily an attack with no contact, just that it isn't the "full monte". Think about it in boxing terms, if it helps. Bruiser Bashenstein throws a combination punch at Tomatocan Flopsweat. Tomatocan sees the left-hand jab and recognizes the big right swing following it, ducks and covers, rolling towards and taking the jab in the arms/gloves while the big right whizzes by, barely glancing tomatocan. The effect of the combination punch is minimal because it's the set up, the big right is where the devastation comes in.

With a sword, even if the defender parries the blade there's impact on his body/joints and maybe the blade is parried by the defender but the attacker gets a slight pop in with the hilt in his follow through.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Yeah, a "miss" isn't necessarily an attack with no contact, just that it isn't the "full monte". Think about it in boxing terms, if it helps. Bruiser Bashenstein throws a combination punch at Tomatocan Flopsweat. Tomatocan sees the left-hand jab and recognizes the big right swing following it, ducks and covers, rolling towards and taking the jab in the arms/gloves while the big right whizzes by, barely glancing tomatocan. The effect of the combination punch is minimal because it's the set up, the big right is where the devastation comes in.

With a sword, even if the defender parries the blade there's impact on his body/joints and maybe the blade is parried by the defender but the attacker gets a slight pop in with the hilt in his follow through.

I do think the boxing analogy is a good one and does show how the mechanic can make sense. My biggest concern is that it isn't going to make this much sense in a number of more specific situations. That is where these kinds of mechanics sometimes break down.

 

[Herschel]

Yep. The biggest threat to the hobby is its fans.

Very much so. Lets take a look at the intarwebs, choose 1.

A. "Here's a great system, enjoy!"

"What? You retroactively destroyed my childhood and kicked puppies! This game is not believable! You designers are moronic jerks!"

B: "Okay, here's a system where we listened to tons and tons of fan feedback and came up with a compromise system"

"How could you release this convoluted mess! You designers are moronic jerks!"

C: "Okay, here's a new system that's reallly a retro game with all of the bits you said you loved from the past."

"What, that's the same stuff I bought for half the price 20 years ago! This is nothing but a money grab and offers nothing new! You designers are moronic jerks!"


Sometimes the internet makes me wonder why anyone would want to design anything for us.

 

[CleverNickName]

Yeah, a "miss" isn't necessarily an attack with no contact, just that it isn't the "full monte".

I used to be an adventurer like you, but then an arrow missed my knee.

 

[Herschel]

I do think the boxing analogy is a good one and does show how the mechanic can make sense. My biggest concern is that it isn't going to make this much sense in a number of more specific situations. That is where these kinds of mechanics sometimes break down.

Very true, but I've come to the conclusion that all fun mechanics break down at some point so I'll choose fun since I'm already playing a game, with giant, flying, fire-breathing lizards, wizards, gods giving their priests special powers and characters not regularly getting offed by infection, plague and dysentery.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Both the numbers and the intensity matter.

It is about how divided the D&D community is. If 30-40 percent of the community really, really, strongly dislikes the mechamic, they could loose a large chunk of potential customers. They are trying to unite the base. That is their stated goal. My point was two fold. One: a single poll on en world isn't much to go on (maybe on wotc 95 percent of the people love it, and on rpgnet 30 percent love it...who knows). Two: given the position wotc is in, and their desogn goals, they do need to be cautious about pleasing 60 percent of the people while displeasing 40 percent. If I were them I would want numbers much closer to 90 percent on a mechanic like this.

But you realize that is insane right... I bet we can't get any mechanic to 91%.

You have to at some point let something go in compramise, and no one is giving...

And if more then 2/3 want something and the less then 1/3 can hold that hostage.

 

[billd91]

For everyone that hates damage on a "miss", Reaper's text need only be changed:

"When the die would indicate a miss, the character with Reaping Strike lands a glancing blow that inflicts minor damage."

Take that! Willing Suspension of Disbelief!

Feh. He's already doing that with most of his hits if you assume that not all hit point damage is purely physical or leaving a gash from the sword or axe hitting breaking the skin. Powers that do damage on a miss just mean that the character auto hits, some for significant damage, some for paltry damage. And I don't think increasing the number of auto-hits in the game is really improving it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

. And I don't think increasing the number of auto-hits in the game is really improving it.

and for every person who feels that way ther are
2 that feel differently so how do we compramise?