D&D 5E Poll: What is a Level 1 PC?

[S'mon]

Maybe this is the problem... IMO, "fiat" is not a "system". It's the lack of a system. So if a game presents a system and says you don't have to use it, you can use fiat... that's disregarding the system which can be done with or without explicit advice from the rules.

So, since most games say to make NPCs, just assign whatever stats & skills feel right, that means most games have "systemless" NPC creation? So by excluding all examples that don't fit your definition, your definition becomes correct. Guess you win the thread, then.

 

[Imaro]

So, since most games say to make NPCs, just assign whatever stats & skills feel right, that means most games have "systemless" NPC creation? So by excluding all examples that don't fit your definition, your definition becomes correct. Guess you win the thread, then.

No if a game gives a system that has a DM make NPC's as PC's then goes on to give advice on using fiat when one wants to... it still has a system that is making NPC's like PC's... How does suggesting you ignore it/modify it/or whatever at times... change the fact that a system where NPC's and PC's are designed the same is what you are ignoring, modifyong, etc.??

Give me an example where that is the system... not a suggestion to, in addition to, modification to or ignoring of the system.

EDIT: See that's my problem, those who think that making fiat the actual system and ignoring those who want an actual NPC as PC's system is the right way to go. It's simple, as shown by a multitude of games out there to cater to both. I'm not even arguing from the position of what I use in my own games but I see the value in providing it for those who want it.

 

[Ryujin]

Also how does creating a total NPC beforehand... bog down play??

You stat out random shop keepers?

 

[Imaro]

You stat out random shop keepers?

What does this have to do with anything? Is every NPC a "random" shop keeper? I have stated out some shop keepers... especially if I plan on the shop playing a more than cursory role in my game.

 

[Ahnehnois]

You stat out random shop keepers?

You use *random* shopkeepers?

 

[Neonchameleon]

You use *random* shopkeepers?

One of these days I'll actually use the Wandering Harlot Table...

 

[Hussar]

What does this have to do with anything? Is every NPC a "random" shop keeper? I have stated out some shop keepers... especially if I plan on the shop playing a more than cursory role in my game.

But, since you run a sandbox game, you cannot possibly know which shop keeper will have more than a cursory role in your game, since the players, according to your claims, have absolute freedom. Therefore, why don't you have to stat out every single shop keeper? After all, you cannot possibly know which ones you might need stats for.

 

[pemerton]

You always on the same system.

That's not true. In B/X and 1st ed AD&D, for instance, most NPCs don't have classes.

Hero System uses Hero points to build PCs and NPCs. If the GM just makes ups stats, that's his prerogative, but the NPCs still use the same game system and use the same rules. "GM simply assigns whatever stats, skills and combat ability feel right." is a GM preference not a system, not a game rule, and has nothing to do with the idea that PCs should be built like NPCs.

Huh? In HERO, you can build your NPC however you like. Of course it can then be costed in HERO points, but what does that prove, other than that everything in HERO can be costed in HERO points.

"Good" game masters aren't born, they're the result of practice, familiarity and trial and error (among numerous other things).

<snip>

If a game master knows he's not good at the type of improvisation of NPC abilities you're talking about above but is superb at everything else... should he not run games?

A GM who can't work out what skill bonus to give an NPC baker is not going to overcome that problem by using the NPC class rules! How would s/he know what level to give the baker? Or how to allocate skill points for the NPC?

What GMs need are good challenge/encounter design guidelines. The NPC build rules are relevant only insofar as they serve that purpose. It's a strength of 4e that it recognises this and explicity designs with it in mind.

A weird feature of HeroQuest revised is that it is generally written under the assumption that difficulties will be assigned by the GM in accordance with the pass/fail system, but from time to time canvasses NPCs having abilities assigned in some other fashion (what fashion is never spelled out - maybe the PC build rules?). In this respect, at least, WotC managed to make a more coherent game than Robin Laws - +1 for WotC!

 

[S'mon]

Give me an example where that is the system... not a suggestion to, in addition to, modification to or ignoring of the system.

BRP Runequest and Call of Cthulu - you're not supposed to create a starter PC then make a bunch of roll over D% skill checks to advance skills used in non-existent play by 1d6 points a go. You're supposed to assign whatever skills look reasonable.

 

[Ryujin]

What does this have to do with anything? Is every NPC a "random" shop keeper? I have stated out some shop keepers... especially if I plan on the shop playing a more than cursory role in my game.

The point being what do you do when the players do something unexpected, like the mentioned arm wrestling challenge? Do you tell the players that they can't do it because that particular butcher isn't a major NPC, so he isn't statted out? Do you suspend play for 20 minutes while you carefully craft said NPC, using the character creation system? Or do you do the logical thing and create basic information, on the spot, that's reasonable for the NPC and doesn't require dealing in minutia.

You use *random* shopkeepers?

Yup, from the "random shopkeepers and hawkers" table. It's right after the "wandering lobsters" table.