Polymorf Any Object question

[Mordeth]

Here is the short of it...

Can you take a Mithril +5 small shield and poly it to a +5 mithril longsword permantly. It seems by the spell description that this could be done. The kicker part is the fact that a +5 shield is 25k and a +5 sword is 50k.

But by the PH this is legal. Anyone heard anything diffrent?

Thanks for any thoughts

 

[hong]

Polymorphing a +5 mithril shield into a sword would result in a non-magical mithril sword. Not only that, but the shield would get a save to avoid being polymorphed.

Pick one or both of the following:

1) Polymorphing retains the spell-like and extraordinary abilities of the target, but its supernatural abilities are lost. The shield's +5 enchantment is supernatural.

2) A +5 enhancement bonus to AC is not the same as a +5 enhancement bonus to attacks and damage.

 

[Mordeth]

Where did you get this from?

1)Where does it say that enhancements are supernatural?

2) Under Magic weapons and Armor, it says "Magic armor bonuses are referred to as enhancement bonus..." and "Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5."

Why would the item lose all its magic? Polymorph Any Object states "A magic item or weapon or other object can be polymorphed into another type of magic object, but it never gains abilities superior to those of the orignal object." Equal is not superior.

The save is not a big deal, it will fail sooner or later. What would the save be anway, figuring at least a DC 26 for an 8th level spell with a 26 int?

Just wanting to see where you got your ideas from. Thanks for the input.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

1)Where does it say that enhancements are supernatural?

They're magic, and they're not spell-like. That only leaves one thing...

2) Under Magic weapons and Armor, it says "Magic armor bonuses are referred to as enhancement bonus..." and "Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5."

That's a short form. Magic Armor bonuses should be referred to as enhancement bonuses to armor...

Why would the item lose all its magic? Polymorph Any Object states "A magic item or weapon or other object can be polymorphed into another type of magic object, but it never gains abilities superior to those of the orignal object." Equal is not superior.

A +5 weapon is superior to a +5 suit of armor. A +5 bonus to attack rolls is about equal to a +5 bonus to armor, but there's also the +5 bonus to damage, and the ability to penetrate damage reduction, including stoneskin (and the +5 armor doesn't grant any sort of damage reduction). That's why the weapon costs twice as much as the armor. Furthermore, there are many types of enhancement bonuses. Not just to armor, attack and damage, but also ability scores, number of actions per round, movement rate, and so forth.

If you were to turn a Gauntlet of Ogre Power into a sword, you don't get a +2 sword

The save is not a big deal, it will fail sooner or later. What would the save be anway, figuring at least a DC 26 for an 8th level spell with a 26 int?

The item has a caster level of at least 15th (for the +5 bonus), so it gets a save of 10 + 1/2 caster level +2, or +19. It would fail more than half of the time.

 

[Iku Rex]

But by the PH this is legal. Anyone heard anything diffrent?

Looks perfectly legal to me.

But why do you want a sword with a +5 bonus to the sword's armor bonus?

(It's not like polymorphing the shield would somehow change the +5 bonus into an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. )

 

[Mordeth]

So what your saying is..

It can turn a bottle cap into a hill giant, but it cant change how the magic affects the item? Seems a stretch to me.

 

[LordAO]

If polymorphing doesn't disrupt the magical properties of an item, then why does damaging it? Why does a weapon/armor have to be masterwork to be enchanted? It's simple. Form matters. Creating magical items is not a simple task. It's extremely complex and precise. Significantly altering an item will cause an item to lose its magical properties. You can't just polymorph something to try and save money. It doesn't work that way. And just because a shield and a weapon both have enhancement bonuses, doesn't mean they are the same thing. If they were, why do they have different costs? Weapons and armor have completely different special abilities as well. The enchantment process is extremely specific to the item being enchanted and very delicate. Polymorhing something will no doubt disrupt that process.

 

[da chicken]

Re: So what your saying is..

It can turn a bottle cap into a hill giant, but it cant change how the magic affects the item? Seems a stretch to me.

The spell states explicitly it can turn a bottle cap into a hill giant. The spell does not state anywhere that it modifies magic effects on the item.

The spell is called polymorph any object not polymorph magical effect.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If you want to allow this polymorphing of magical object, I'd suggest you simply rule that the power of a magical enchantment is roughly gauged by it's price.

I'd have serious reservations allowing the spell to do that though.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If you were to Polymorph a Wand of Fireballs into a Fire Giant, does the Fire Giant now have the ability to throw Fireball up to 50 times? Of course not!

If you want a +5 mithral sword, there's a nice little 3rd-level spell that will do the job for you.