D&D 5E Polymorph and a Box

[plisnithus8]

Regarding the polymorph spell, "The target’s gear melds into the new form."

An enclosing box that would prevent growth is fundamentally no different from a jacket, belt, or pair of boots. It simply melds into your form until the spell ends.



Those are not analogous. We know what happens, rules wise, when a sleeping person is thrown off a cliff. We DON'T know what happens, rules wise, when Polymorph and cramped spaces interact.

The creature's gear melds at casting. That has nothing to do with the box which it is put in later. Polymorph doesn't have a lingering transformation effect; only the gear worn at casting. And as stated before, something the creature is inside is not gear.

Sleep/cliff is similar to polymorph/box. If the character had done polymorph/box before, they should reasonable expect a similar effect again. Similar to rolling a creature off a cliff could be unpredictable if there is a river below, or rocks, ect. Not exactly the same, but seem similar, both have insta-kill options, both have variables, both need something else: cliff or magic box.

 

[plisnithus8]

I avoid to apply unnecessary cruelty to Npc!

I would think having an NPC polymorph and place a PC in a magic box would be a conscious choice by the DM to show both the cunning and crueltry of this NPC.

 

[Ganymede81]

The creature's gear melds at casting. That has nothing to do with the box which it is put in later.

Yeah, what I said doesn't apply in situations where the target is de-polymorphing, only when it is polymorphing.

Regarding the scenario you describe...

As a DM, I view polymorph's "transform" as the target disappearing and reappearing in a new form with a flash of magical light. Other DMs might view it more similarly to Lewis Carrol's Alice growing after eating a magic mushroom or Bruce Banner becoming the Hulk, but I do not.

How do I handle that in confined spaces that the target can't squeeze into? The target appears in its new form in the closest available adequately-sized space. But that's just me. Every DM is different and I could see how another could make a different ruling in a situation like this without rule guidance.

Sleep/cliff is similar to polymorph/box. If the character had done polymorph/box before...

I'm not sure why you're conflating knowing what happens, rules wise, under this situation with knowing what happens, in the absence of rules, under a DM's ruling. Of course anything that the DM says happens, happens.

But yeah, relevancy of your point aside, you're technically right: in campaigns where the DM has decided polymorphing in confined spaces results in death, polymorphing in confined spaces results in death.

By your logic the cave (and thus, by ridiculous but still logical extension, the entire planet) should meld in to the goblin as it changes to a giant.

Are you sure you understand my logic? Your response here indicates that you might not.

 

[plisnithus8]

As a DM, I view polymorph's "transform" as the target disappearing and reappearing in a new form with a flash of magical light. Other DMs might view it more similarly to Lewis Carrol's Alice growing after eating a magic mushroom or Bruce Banner becoming the Hulk, but I do not.

It seems like the word "meld" shows the intent of the spell blending one form into another.
Since you are ignoring that - which is fine - your specific preferences have less impact on a general discussion.

 

[Ganymede81]

It seems like the word "meld" shows the intent of the spell blending one form into another.
Since you are ignoring that - which is fine - your specific preferences have less impact on a general discussion.

That's it? Salty passive-aggressiveness?

Dude, please do not blow up my notifications in order to start an online peeing contest.

If, instead, you want to have an actual good-faith discussion of our contrasting DMing styles, feel free to re-quote one of my earlier posts.

 

[plisnithus8]

That's it? Salty passive-aggressiveness?

Dude, please do not blow up my notifications in order to start an online peeing contest.

If, instead, you want to have an actual good-faith discussion of our contrasting DMing styles, feel free to re-quote one of my earlier posts.

The only agressiveness here seems to be your last post; I didn't and still don't intend any. I am sorry if my words led you to believe otherwise.

I was only pointing out that the spell description does give a fairly definitive answer answer to how the polymorph transformation operates.

 

[Waterbizkit]

See, in situations like this I like to just boil off all the dreck and just get right to the pith of what the players intent is within the context of the situation. That's a fairly vague statement, but it's meant to be because we can all spend eternity changing the variables to suit our own arguments.

Now in this instance what see is a PC, or possibly an NPC, who's won the day. Their enemies are dead or have fled the battle... except for this one poor sod who's been polymorphed into some harmless form or another. The intent, presumably, is to now kill the polymorphed wretch in some way or another, be it simple or absurd. So why not just get it over with? Why bother with a bunch of inane debate about the specifics? Well, it's inane if it's happening at the table, It seems like a waste of time in that case. Here on the interwebs maybe it's just a fun mental exercise.

You want to put the polymorphed creature in a tiny box and end the spell? Fine. It's dead. Fly up a few hundred feet and drop it? Fine. It's dead. Throw it off a cliff? Wedge it in a tight crevice? Whatever it is, fine, it's dead. Let's move on. To me this isn't cheating the system and it can even be fun on occasion when it happens, but I don't like to devote a ton of table time to this sort of thing.

Now, per usual, my disclaimer... all of the above is just how I handle my games, not how i feel anyone else should. We all play the game in our own ways, this is just my way, not the only one.

 

[plisnithus8]

See, in situations like this I like to just boil off all the dreck and just get right to the pith of what the players intent is within the context of the situation. That's a fairly vague statement, but it's meant to be because we can all spend eternity changing the variables to suit our own arguments.

Now in this instance what see is a PC, or possibly an NPC, who's won the day. Their enemies are dead or have fled the battle... except for this one poor sod who's been polymorphed into some harmless form or another. The intent, presumably, is to now kill the polymorphed wretch in some way or another, be it simple or absurd. So why not just get it over with? Why bother with a bunch of inane debate about the specifics? Well, it's inane if it's happening at the table, It seems like a waste of time in that case. Here on the interwebs maybe it's just a fun mental exercise.

You want to put the polymorphed creature in a tiny box and end the spell? Fine. It's dead. Fly up a few hundred feet and drop it? Fine. It's dead. Throw it off a cliff? Wedge it in a tight crevice? Whatever it is, fine, it's dead. Let's move on. To me this isn't cheating the system and it can even be fun on occasion when it happens, but I don't like to devote a ton of table time to this sort of thing.

Now, per usual, my disclaimer... all of the above is just how I handle my games, not how i feel anyone else should. We all play the game in our own ways, this is just my way, not the only one.

I just saw this as an interwebdebate.
At the table, the DM could take s minute to ask for factual input (RAW). But hopefully she moves the game ahead with a timely decision.

 

[Ganymede81]

The only agressiveness here seems to be your last post; I didn't and still don't intend any. I am sorry if my words led you to believe otherwise.

I said "passive-aggressiveness." That is something distinct from aggressiveness.

I was only pointing out that the spell description does give a fairly definitive answer answer to how the polymorph transformation operates.

If, by this, you are implying that the spell gives a definitive rules answer to what happens when polymorph interacts with tight spaces, you are 100% wrong.

There is nothing that specifies what happens in this situation and it is up to each DM to come up with a ruling that works for their table.

 

[Lanefan]

While as DM you could come up with your own rules, RAW P.183 PHB - When a sufficating creature runs out of air, "it drops to 0 hit points and is dying."

Ruled that way because they want everything to go through hit points whether warranted or not. I get it.

Dumb rule.

Some things should bypass hit points completely; this is one.

At zero hp the polymorphed creature reverts to its original form with its original hp.

Wouldn't surprise me if they put these two rules in specifically to nerf Poly-Other...particularly the second one, which outright means you cannot kill a polymorphed creature. Which is rather easily breakable, when you think about it:

Step one: wizard casts Poly-Other on party fighter, turns her into a giant or ogre or some other thing that's big and burly and tough
Step one-a: if necessary, wizard and other party members withdraw to a safe observation place
Step two: party's poly'ed fighter goes gonzo and lays waste to whatever enemies it can find, not caring overmuch about its own self-preservation
Step three: party's poly'ed fighter eventually goes down, reverts to form, gets up at full h.p. and keeps going as it normally would in any battle
Step three-a: if step one-a happened, party now join in as normal

Bleah.

Lan-"I'd count this as shenanigans long before death-by-polymorph"-efan