DDAL Polymorph and drop monster into a pickle jar.

[Baron Opal II]

Okay situation. PC casts polymorph on a monster. Grick Alpha in this case. Turns it into a starfish. Drops it into a pickle jar. Their argument is that even after an hour, it could not shift back due to not having the strength. My counter it depends and you have an hour before I make a decision.

Your input please.

Pickle jars are an excellent, short term method of carrying polymorphed monsters around. It delays your problem for an hour, and makes for a very interesting mine / time bomb. Eventually, however, you are going to have a 25 liter creature in a half liter jar. This ends poorly for the jar, and makes the creature cranky.

 

[Demetrios1453]

There is no strength required to shift back.

If you want to start killing pcs this way, allow it; otherwise, reason your way out of it. I'd rule that either the jar shatters as the creature resumes its normal form or that the lid pops off and the creature pops out.

5e is not really big on instant death effects, which is what all the shenanigans suggested in the thread are trying to achieve. I'd just always default to "shunted to nearest large enough open space" rather than opening that particular can of worms.

I was thinking on this just now, and... in general, does the "nearest unoccupied space" also include "up"? It would clearly do so in this case (unless there were some caves nearby). Basically, if a creature is subject to something that would force it into the nearest unoccupied space, and say the (two-dimensional) area nearest to it is filled with other creatures and other obstacles for 15 feet or so around, would it appear 5 feet out and 5 feet up?

 

[Clint_L]

"Let the wookie win."

If a player hits on this idea, they'll keep pushing the limits until they figure out ways to effectively kill monsters using polymorph. You can go back and forth in a somewhat antagonist game of cat and mouse with the player where you explain away why this and that approach doesn't turn polymorph into an effective instant kill ... or you can just let it happen. I find it far better for the game to work with the PC and make it fun for them. To that end, I join their game rather than trying to end it.

Player: "So the Grick fails and turns into a starfish? I scoop it into that glass jar from the last room and put the lid on!"

DM: "Roll me an Intelligence check - proficient if you have Nature."

Player: "13."

DM: "The starfish will die in a matter of minutes without water. That will end the polymorph and return them to their normal form at full hp. That'll break the jar, dealing a little damage to them, but they'll essentially be back at full hp then."

Player: "Oh - what if I put water in the jar?"

DM: "If it isn't salt water, the starfish will die relatively quickly still. You're not sure how long, but it will be less than an hour."

Player: "OK. How long would it take for me to get back to that room with lava?"

DM: "You have enough time assuming nothing new has moved into your path."

Player: "OK, I run back and throw the jar in the lava."

DM: "You rolled a 13? As you start to head that way you realize the grick may survive a dip in lava - it'll likely be badly burned, but it is likely to survive. You realize, however, that you could just place the grick in a confined space. If the space is strong enough, the grick will be crushed to death when it reverts."

Player: "Oh - there was that stone shaft that we pulled the key out of ... you said that was drilled about 10 feet into the solid rock."

DM: "Yup. You think that will work."

Player: "I do it then. What happens when I end concentration?"

DM: "There is a very brief screech followed by a surprisingly thick red and green goo with specks of bone extruding from the mouth of the shaft."

Player: "Ewww ... nice."

That seems like you were doing a lot more work than the player.

 

[jgsugden]

That seems like you were doing a lot more work than the player.

As a DM, this is an example of me working with their ideas. Letting the Wookie Win doesn't mean I stop being the DM, though. We craft the world and let them execute in it, and crafting a world still takes effort. To that end, the idea is to let them direct their ideas and input what they want and I fill in around the gaps to give a good story with visualizations that inspire immersion.

 

[Blue]

I really hate 5E polymorph. Spell should have remain split into Polymorph (Self) and Baneful Polymorph. If I turn someone into a cat, I'd like for them not to just be able to throw themselves off a table to turn themselves back without some (serious) risk.

That would miss out on my favorite use of polymorph in 5e - on badly hurt allies whole are in melee.

But yeah, that would have resolved a bunch of issues.

 

[Burnside]

I had a group successfully polymorph the Xanathar into a goldfish, put him in his own goldfish bowl with Sylgar, and then put the bowl into their Bag of Holding (along with other items they had in there).

They neglected to pay attention to the "only 10 minutes of air in there" stipulation with bag of holding, causing Sylgar to die and Xanathar to drop to zero hp and regain his own form after 10 minutes. The combined weight of reconstituted Xanathar plus the other items they had in there exceeded maximum capacity of the bag (which is like 500 pounds), destroying it and blasting Xanathar (and a lot of their treasure) into the Astral Plane. More than a year later (in real life time) Xanathar returned for revenge at the helm of a spelljammer which it bought with their treasure.

 

[FrozenNorth]

That would miss out on my favorite use of polymorph in 5e - on badly hurt allies whole are in melee.

But yeah, that would have resolved a bunch of issues.

Why should a single level 5 spell be all of (i) the top support spell for its level (give 80 temp hp); (ii) the top debuff spell for its level (remove an enemy from combat for 1 hour on a single failed save); and (iii) a top utility spell ?

 

[Blue]

Why should a single level 5 spell be all of (i) the top support spell for its level (give 80 temp hp); (ii) the top debuff spell for its level (remove an enemy from combat for 1 hour on a single failed save); and (iii) a top utility spell ?

It's not.

1. It's not 80tHP. It's new HPs and a new form, which often is less capable. If the target is a caster it's a full stop, if they are melee their AC has likely gone way down. Their mental stats are lowered and they can't speak. Oh, and unlike anything else that grants tHPs, it takes up your concentration.

2. It's a debuff like Tasha's where you can't attack the foe. At 5th level for single target debuff it's weaksauce. Compare to a 3rd level spell like Hypnotic Pattern which is area of effect with the same limitation that the debuff goes away if you hurt them. Except that the target might be able to kill itself or move over to an ally to do so, and it's 2 levels lower. At single target, Tasha's Hideous Laughter is better since damaging them just gives an save at advantage, not dispeling it.

3. It might give flight - at 2 levels above the fly spell. Not sure how else it's "top tier" utility.

I think you're really stretching on the power of polymorph. It's a 5th level spell with some flexibility, but you're trying to make it out that it's the best of all 5th level spells for all of those uses and it's not anywhere near there. For most it's equivilent or worse than spells several levels lower.

 

[Clint_L]

Oh, I disagree that polymorph isn't an extremely powerful, versatile spell. You see a party member about to die and NOPE, now you're a giant ape wrecking face at full HP. They can become exactly the creature needed for any given situation. And, as the OP illustrates, you can use it to completely incapacitate an opponent.

It's definitely a top tier spell. One of the best save or suck spells, as well also being a massive utility and healing spell if needed.

 

[FarBeyondC]

Okay situation. PC casts polymorph on a monster. Grick Alpha in this case. Turns it into a starfish. Drops it into a pickle jar. Their argument is that even after an hour, it could not shift back due to not having the strength. My counter it depends and you have an hour before I make a decision.

Your input please.

The rules don't cover this interaction, so it's ultimately your decision what happens.

That being said, creature reverts to its normal form in the closest space/square that can accommodate said form is the ruling I go with.