Polymorph Any Object weirdness

[Rkhet]

With this, if you polymorph A to B, A gets to retain Hitpoints, BAB, etc. So... if I polymorph a block of stone into a planetar, it gets 900 hp? Does it retain the Hardness? Weirdness.

What's more, what kind of saves or BAB would it get? It's a lump of rock.

 

[Jack Simth]

With this, if you polymorph A to B, A gets to retain Hitpoints, BAB, etc. So... if I polymorph a block of stone into a planetar, it gets 900 hp?

Technically, yes; although it only lasts about 20 minutes ... and isn't necessarily under your control. After all, it just now picked up Intelligence (and some Wisdom, and some Charisma), and there is nothing in the Polymorph Any Object, Polymorph, or Alter Self description to indicate that it must be freindly to you. It may be upset that you interrupted it's peaceful slumber.

Does it retain the Hardness?

Nope - hardness is not a class ability, nor a supernatural ability, and not a spell-like ability, so it's lost.... not that it matters much what with the 900 hp.

Weirdness.

What's more, what kind of saves or BAB would it get? It's a lump of rock.

0 + Stat mod - it's got no class levels (it was a rock; hard for that to know anything ... unless maybe you have been using PAO on it for that purpose a lot), it's got no HD (just HP - it's an object) and so doesn't get a bonus from having HD, and it's munchkiny enough already.

 

[Rkhet]

Hmm. Well, if it's got no saves, then there's nothing stopping me from using Charm Monster or Dominate.

And you're wrong about the 20 minutes. I can create a medium-sized adamantine statue of an angel (a crude one will do), and since it's related and same size it'll be permanent.

Or I can do the same thing with a colossal statue of a golem - it's related and have the same int (-) so it'll be permanent too. And it'll have hitpoints coming out of its ears.

Ooh, I can just imagine evil PCs selling permanently-morphed, underpowered planetars (made from something small with wings) as slaves.

 

[Jack Simth]

Hmm. Well, if it's got no saves, then there's nothing stopping me from using Charm Monster or Dominate.

True, but won't you be annoyed when an opposing Sorceror does too? Between your turn and it's? While it's right next to you?

And you're wrong about the 20 minutes. I can create a medium-sized adamantine statue of an angel (a crude one will do), and since it's related and same size it'll be permanent.

Or I can do the same thing with a colossal statue of a golem - it's related and have the same int (-) so it'll be permanent too. And it'll have hitpoints coming out of its ears.

Ooh, I can just imagine evil PCs selling permanently-morphed, underpowered planetars (made from something small with wings) as slaves.

Umm... just going by the 3.5 d20 SRD PAO: Related -> +2; Same Size -> +2 -> DF 4 -> 3 hours; add same int (-), and you get another +2 for DF 6, 2 days. Longer, but far from permenent. I'm curious what version you were looking at that gave you permenent?

 

[domino]

Well, if the planetars are made from a winged creature, that's a +5 right there, for both being animal. Drop the +2 from being the same size, and you're sitting on a +9.

Likewise, the golems and statues are both minerals. Therefore, they'd actually have a duration factor of 11. Which is irrelevant.

 

[Jack Simth]

Well, if the planetars are made from a winged creature, that's a +5 right there, for both being animal. Drop the +2 from being the same size, and you're sitting on a +9.

Planetars are (Angel, Extraplanar, Good) - if you tried this, it is very likely that your DM would call that a Kingdom difference, dropping your +5 out of the picture, putting you back at +4. Useful, but not terribly so - especially as you aren't getting any of the Spell-Like or Supernatural Abilities (need Shapechange for that), as there is no direct mention of them in PAO, but it acts like Polymorph which specifically excludes them.

Also, as they have Spell Resistance 30 (an Ex ability) it will likely be a little touch-and go to control the thing.

Likewise, the golems and statues are both minerals. Therefore, they'd actually have a duration factor of 11. Which is irrelevant.

Yes ... but Golems are constructs, and immune to mind-affecting spells and effects. Them, you can't control.

And of course, they are always first in line for a quick Greater Dispel Magic, Area, up against intelligent opponents.

 

[Rkhet]

From the www.dictionary.com:

Main Entry: king·dom
Pronunciation: 'ki[ng]-d&m
Function: noun
: any of the three primary divisions of lifeless material, plants, and animals into which natural objects are grouped; also : a biological category (as Protista) that ranks above the phylum

There are only three kingdoms, by definition. If there were a fourth for outsiders, the spell would say so. I declare Occam's Razor here. At any rate, Planetar and Golem was given only as an example. Any form with 15 HD or less can be used.

If Dominate doesn't work, get the party Bard to try Diplomacy instead. By level 15 it should be easy to get its disposition to Helpful. You can take your time preparing against things that last forever and has such obvious weaknesses. Once it's done, use Mind Blank on it. Or if the Dominate works, use Protection against Alignment.

They are always first in line for a quick Greater Dispel Magic, Area, up against intelligent opponents *who know what they are*.

Not every encounter is going to include a mage with Greater Dispel, just because you did this. Even they'd require time to study it and a knowledge(arcana) roll before they know what they are. They might think it's strange that it's got so many hitpoints but so little power, but that is all.

 

[Rkhet]

I checked the spell description again. A polymorphed item does not take on immunities or other special qualities. All they get is any (Ex) attacks. So Planetars wouldn't get their SR and golems wouldn't get their construct immunities.

I've given this some more thought. My conclusion: Permanent Animate Object.

Animate Object gets you construct traits, hardness, and undying loyalty. Also BAB and saves. Then you polymorph it into something useful.

 

[moritheil]

Hey, not bad.

Going back to your earlier post, you were talking about separately making a statue and then using PAO on it, right? In which case, Planetars are living things and adamantine is a mineral, no?

I checked the spell description again. A polymorphed item does not take on immunities or other special qualities. All they get is any (Ex) attacks. So Planetars wouldn't get their SR and golems wouldn't get their construct immunities.

I've given this some more thought. My conclusion: Permanent Animate Object.

Animate Object gets you construct traits, hardness, and undying loyalty. Also BAB and saves. Then you polymorph it into something useful.

 

[Rkhet]

Yeah. It'll last 3 hours in that case. Making permanent pseudo-golems will probably be a better deal. What I was arguing is that you can permanently turn birds into weak Planetars and, idunno, sell them to demons or something.