D&D 4E Polymorph in 4E?

[Fenes]

Wasn't there a "you get the stats and form and movement, but not the magical stuff" polymorph rule once? It would probably solve a lot of the balancing troubles and would retain the flavor of the spell.

 

[pawsplay]

War trolls are fine as a monster, just not as a PC option. And that's fine -- I don't want the designers to have to do a "polymorph check" every time there's a new addition to the Monster Manual. Much better to fix Polymorph itself.

Which is pretty easy.

Example:
Cannot polymorph into anything with an ability score higher than caster level +10
Cannot polymorph into anything with an armor bonus or any other kind of bonus higher than caster level
Movement rate no more than double normal ground rate

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Whoah, so a D&D gamebook actually cribbed an entire scene from Disney's Sword in the Stone? Merlin and Mabb, duelling polymorphs. Good times, good times...

Which in turn was ripping off a much older story.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Wasn't there a "you get the stats and form and movement, but not the magical stuff" polymorph rule once? It would probably solve a lot of the balancing troubles and would retain the flavor of the spell.

The stats alone might be to powerful. A Strength of 30 at 7th level is pretty powerful, and there is no guarantee that there won't be a monster that has exactly that.

And it also loses a lot of the utility - most the time, poylmorph can only be used for combat, because the interesting and useful abilities remain unavailable (Darkvision, Scent, Water Breathing, Energy Resistances..)

 

[jasin]

That said, I wonder if maybe the solution isn't two different spells? A "combat polymorph," that gives you access to potent creatures for a few rounds, and a more general polymorph that gives you longer duration, but is limited to much weaker critters.

Could be.

There's a set of combat shapechanging spells I like very much: the bite of the weresomething series form Spell Compendium. They turn you into a hybrid-form lycanthrope for 1 round/level, granting ability bonuses (not scores, and they're enhancenement), natural attacks and some feats. I think that's a decent model for combat shapechanging.

For utility shapechanging, there could be list similar to summon monster, focusing on shapes with convenient physical special abilities like swimming, flying or camouflage, rather than the high stats and humanoid shape favored for combat.

 

[Aloïsius]

For utility shapechanging, there could be list similar to summon monster, focusing on shapes with convenient physical special abilities like swimming, flying or camouflage, rather than the high stats and humanoid shape favored for combat.

It would probably be the best solution. Of course, it depends of the spell system. If Vancian magic is gone AND if writing cost is seriously reduced, then I have no problem with "monomorph". Finding a new "monomorph" spell would be a new kind of reward for the wizard.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I fully agree. Maybe something like the PHBII druid for druids, though I hope it is a bit stronger, as the benefits given there are really really slim.

Or like th aspect spells, that is the way to do changing forms. Allowing changing into anythig, including all those broken trolls is too much and I am sure it will be gone forever, and good riddance.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I'm guessing that Polymorph will be broken down into several different spells. The "base" polymorph spell could give you the ability to assume a certain range of animal forms. Others could give specific, more powerful forms.

I just hope that we'll get to keep our mental attributes this time around. I don't want to "gain" the intelligence of a cat when I turn into one.

 

[Jhaelen]

Which is pretty easy.

Example:
Cannot polymorph into anything with an ability score higher than caster level +10
Cannot polymorph into anything with an armor bonus or any other kind of bonus higher than caster level
Movement rate no more than double normal ground rate

Even easier:
Cannot polymorph at all.

Use the PHB2 option for wildshaping and the 'monomorph' spells for anything else - Done. Didn't even require any new, fancy rules

 

[pawsplay]

Even easier:
Cannot polymorph at all.

Use the PHB2 option for wildshaping and the 'monomorph' spells for anything else - Done. Didn't even require any new, fancy rules

There's only one problem with that: no polymorph at all. It's true, removing such a spell from the game does simplify things, but then, so would reducing the weapon charts to only the sword, shortbow, and club.

At the very least, a magic system without a spell that allows you to turn into animals is incomplete.