Polymorph & Pregnancy

[TheTurboTornado]

It's questions like this (among many others) which I was so hoping the d20-era Book of Erotic Fantasy would give useful coherent answers to. Oh the disappointment...

I had this sort of thing happen in my current campaign, in fact: an originally-female (human) character had been permanently changed to male and kept finding ways to temporarily change back to female; which usually lasted as long as it took for her to get hit with a Dispel Magic. However, during one of her temporarily-female phases she got pregnant; whereupon I quietly ruled to myself she would remain female no matter what until the pregnancy ended via any means be it her death, an abortion, coming to term, or whatever. Well, despite adventuring in the field for 6 of her 9 months she made it to full term and on giving birth almost immediately reverted to male...no breastfeeding for you, kid...which she'd otherwise have done some months prior.

But polymorph on someone already pregnant, or becoming pregnant while polymorphed (the latter is highly unlikely in my game as polymorph spells have a much lower duration than forever), is a can o' worms I'd never considered before.

For the sake of simplicity and sanity I think if a polymorph hit someone already pregnant I'd rule the fetus would go with the mother - turn a pregnant human into a dwarf and you get a pregnant dwarf carrying a dwarf child - and if birth somehow happened during the polymorph duration the spell would continue to affect both as if simultaneously cast on each; thus here a dwarf baby would be born and when the mother turned back to a human the baby would change with her. I'd also rule that a pregnant female could (usually*) only be polymorphed into a female, to preserve the pregnancy. (which means abortion, otherwise perfectly accepted in my world, cannot be achieved via a polymorph-return cycle) If the polymorph is to something that does not normally become pregnant as such, e.g. a salmon, I'd probably say the fetus is lost but it would almost certainly be a moot point as chances are extremely high that such polymorph is being done in order to kill the mother anyway.

The more frequent example of this sort of thing is shapeshifting Nature Clerics (Druids); here I've already ruled the fetus changes in lockstep, and as birth cannot happen while shapeshifted and as the shapeshift is controlled by the Druid she can and will - and must - change to her normal form in order to give birth. Shapeshifting cannot change one's gender, so that headache doesn't happen; and I only allow them to shapeshift into ordinary animals or birds - I can deal with a pregnant bird instead of an egg-laying one for this purpose.

* - except when polymorphing into an Orc; I have Orcs change gender on the fly somewhat randomly anyway as a product of their whacked-out biology, and in this case a male CAN be pregnant.

Another area where I have already thought over this sort of thing is if a pregnant character dies and is revived, what happens to the fetus? What I do is give the mother a saving throw on revival if such is done by Raise Dead (use of this spell implies both that the corpse is pretty much whole and hasn't been dead all that long) which if successful means the fetus comes back with her; but if revival is via Resurrection (requiring only a bit of the corpse) or by Reincarnation (probably into a different species) the fetus is lost.

Lan-"gods can impregnate others while shapeshifted - ordinary mortals, not so much"-efan

Thank you for your answer. However, it wasn't much use to me. I fully blame this on myself though. You see, I had previously posted a reply on the original question by Centaur in which I said, among others, that pregnancy results into Immutable Form, as golems have. I forgot to mention this (Look it up, it's a lot clearer. I would quote it, but I don't know how to do multiple quotes). This renders your answer pretty much useless.

Nevertheless, thanks for answering, it was very interesting, and I'm definetly using your idea on rezzing pregnant people.

As for my question, I'll re-ask it as following: If following my aforementioned views on Polymorph and Pregnancy, how would you tackle abortion? (if the answer is a spell of some sorts, please go into detail)

 

[Lanefan]

As for my question, I'll re-ask it as following: If following my aforementioned views on Polymorph and Pregnancy, how would you tackle abortion? (if the answer is a spell of some sorts, please go into detail)

This would usually* be handled at a much simpler level: there's herbs that can do it, commonly available at any herbalist's shop or - for field adventurers - reasonably easily found in most climates by any Ranger or Nature Cleric.

* - however if the pregnancy is divinely caused (e.g. by Zeus messing around with the pretty mortals, as He's been known to do) these herbs are way outgunned, and the pregnancy probably cannot be stopped without some sort of divine help.

Lan-"for these purposes, polymorph is simply the wrong tool for the job"-efan

 

[Lanefan]

You see, I had previously posted a reply on the original question by Centaur in which I said, among others, that pregnancy results into Immutable Form, as golems have.

Passing thought: how does this interact with shapeshifting Druids (Nature Clerics)? Does a pregnant mid-to-high level Druid lose her innate ability to shapeshift? (if yes, this seems like an unfair penalty to female Druids) Also, how does this interact with creatures that are naturally able to shapeshift e.g. Doppelgangers - are they also locked into their normal form while pregnant?

Lan-"assuming, of course, Doppelgangers use the same reproductive system as the rest of us"-efan

 

[Herobizkit]

It would be a viable way for the mother to give birth to a Changeling...

 

[Leatherhead]

This thread is a great example of the reason I use the "Magic is not Physics, or by extension Biology" rule nowadays. I just ask myself "What would be the most pleasing outcome to the metaphysical being (or perhaps crazy mage, if they are doing independent work from scratch) in charge of this mess?" and carry on from there. Which means that sometimes nothing bad happens, and other times everything bad happens.

* - however if the pregnancy is divinely caused (e.g. by Zeus messing around with the pretty mortals, as He's been known to do) these herbs are way outgunned, and the pregnancy probably cannot be stopped without some sort of divine help.

This is why Atropals happen.

But, by far, the most shocking revelation of this thread is that El Goonish Shive still exists.

 

[TheTurboTornado]

Passing thought: how does this interact with shapeshifting Druids (Nature Clerics)? Does a pregnant mid-to-high level Druid lose her innate ability to shapeshift? (if yes, this seems like an unfair penalty to female Druids) Also, how does this interact with creatures that are naturally able to shapeshift e.g. Doppelgangers - are they also locked into their normal form while pregnant?

Lan-"assuming, of course, Doppelgangers use the same reproductive system as the rest of us"-efan

Well, umm... Good one. I'd say they still lose that ability. It strips them of one of their biggest powers, but I guess they'd just have to plan this out.

As for the herbs: Good idea. I'd like to add that they cost 25 gp per dose, and they have to be used for 5 following days to have effect. Their effect would be to kill the foetus, shrink it to some degree and simply restart the menstruational cycle, so that the dead foetus simply gets "washed out." If the baby is too big, I had a very dark idea. Let's just say that in my campain, there will be a Plane of Aborted Babies...

And yes, EGS still lives, why? Did it go on hiatus at some point or something? I know EGS:NP did...

 

[Big J Money]

I'll pull something out of fantasy stories to answer this question. I picked up a set of fairy tales, called something like "Enchanted Worlds," at a garage sale. I think they were some kind of Time-Life series like you would buy off the TV, as they are lovely hardcover books with glossy pages and lots of pictures There was one book for each theme - fairies, elves, giants, ghosts, wizards, enchantments, love, etc.

One of the stories, I believe in either the fairies or enchantment book, dealt with the question posed above. The wife of a man was transformed into a dog to punish her husband. However, she was pregnant at the time. While her husband was eventually able to break the curse, the curser told him that the children's names weren't on the spell, and thus couldn't be broken. Thus the man's potential heirs were born dogs, though his wife was returned to her natural form. Now, they were very intelligent and loyal dogs, but still dogs.

I was able to stop reading this thread at this reply. Very cool input.

 

[CM]

[MENTION=6800647]TheTurboTornado[/MENTION]: Level 1 novice, level 5 necromancer (dual-class)

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I have got my own theory about how polymorph works.. and I don't like the idea all cells from a body changing its DNA temporally. I imagine really the polymorphy is like a illusion, the original body doesn't change at all, only to become invisible and "demicorporeal", while the mind is using a second "body" created by "living ectomplasm".

Then a pregnant female with a polymorph effect shouldn't be too dangerous for the baby, because mommy has become half-ghost while she is remote-controlling a second body. (but maybe there is some risks for the baby, but if the mother is a innate shapeshifter).

 

[TheTurboTornado]

Passing thought: how does this interact with shapeshifting Druids (Nature Clerics)? Does a pregnant mid-to-high level Druid lose her innate ability to shapeshift? (if yes, this seems like an unfair penalty to female Druids) Also, how does this interact with creatures that are naturally able to shapeshift e.g. Doppelgangers - are they also locked into their normal form while pregnant?

Lan-"assuming, of course, Doppelgangers use the same reproductive system as the rest of us"-efan

Ahem:

First, second and fourth: Yes. Polymorph other would give the target the internal reproductive organs needed for reproduction, or succesfully alter existing ones. As for question #4, the offspring would be whatever creature the mother was at childbirth. Polymorphing a female human into a female dragon would thus cause the offspring to be a dragon, possibly with human features. What I like to do in such situations is say: The personality of the baby is how it would have been if both parents would naturally be the same type. Thus, if a male elf inpregnates a female gnome through polymorph, the DM could decide that the elf would be very serious if born a gnome, and that thus the offspring would be serious as well.

Third and final part of second: Hard, but I'd rule similar to these two (each word is a separate link) El Goonish Shive comics: Transformed creatures cannot mate within a few days of the transformation, making most spells unfitted because of time limits. Besides, any pregnant creature is immune to any form of transformation that would affect the baby. Alter self would work, but polymorph? Nope. Also, as shown in the comic, any spell would become permanent, and the only way to become normal again is through Dispel Magic or a 2nd Polymorph spell after childbirth. Or in my opinion, to a week or two after childbirth, for the sake of feeding the child.

This transformation immunity seems a little OP at first thought, but as we see in the book of erotic fantasy, pregnancy is not all that desirable during adventuring!

TL;DR/Summary:
1:Yes, the spell would not be dispellable in any way and the baby would be born healthy and well, as the creature the mother was polymorphed into.
2: Yes, the spell would become permanent, and could only be reversed a few weeks after childbirth.
3: The second polymorph spell would have no effect.
4: See 1.

Ok, I gave the matter a bit more thought, and this is my new idea:

Polymorph and Natural Shapeshifting could happen, but not with the freedom they used to have.

Say, a male human turns into a female human and gets pregnant. The magic that is childbirth would make that the spell would become undispellable, as if the base form of the polymorphed person would change. This would mean that it the creature is polymorphed again, and that polymorph is reversed, the form they revert to is the pregnant female form.

The same goes with polymorphing into a form that can not naturally become pregnant. If a pregnant woman, polymorphed or not, turns into, let's say, a T. Rex, the pregnancy would obviously not work, as T. Rex(...es? I guess?) are not mammals, and thus have no wombs. If they do-I haven't studied T. Rex autonomy, so I could be wrong- they are not fit for carrying a live child, only for laying eggs, but thats beside the matter. Same goes with transforming into a man, as they can also not become naturally pregnant. The baby would go to hyperspace/ a pocket dimension, whatever rows your boat, and as soon as the mother transforms into a form suited for pregnancy, the child gets placed into the womb again. This is known as pausing the pregnancy.

When a pregnant woman is polymorphed into a form that is able to become pregnant (i.e. female human to female dwarf), the pregnancy would continue, but 2 weeks before coming to term, the pregnancy cycle would still be paused, just like female ---> male transformations and the like.

Anything that I have said in my previous post that does not clash with what I said here (I.E. that polymorph allows pregnancy and stuff) still counts. That includes the time limit of the undispelleriness by the way.