Polymorph & Pregnancy

[Centaur]

To Centaur: Out of the explainations/suggestions you have seen so far, what makes the most sense or works the most for you. I was going to throw my 2 cents in but I'm wondering where the thread-starter stands based on 40+ posts.

I do think this is an interesting topic and I'm thinking of using aspects of it as a plot-hook...

First I would like to thank everyone for their input, it has helped me a lot (not to mention my missconception on the duration fau pa).

What works the best for me is to assume that a persons Soul can be considered a seperate piece from their body. However, for the act of procreation to occur, their needs to be some sort of interaction between the two. The Soul is where the "Creature Type" Remains, not with the body.

If a compatible male and female body conjoin then new life can be created. Once this life is created, the souls of each participant then have a recepticle into which they can pour the Spark of Life. Once they both have deposited their spark then a new soul has been created in the new life form.

The result is that the basic life form created will initialy appear similiar to a cross breeding of the male and female forms. However, if the resultant soul has any su sp or ex abilites, these will eventualy manifest and could alter the final apperence of the child.

Based on the original question posed,
1) Can become Pregnant
2) Can become Pregnant
3) Can Induce Pregnancy
4) Can Induce Pregnancy (even though it has left the body and should revert to it's original for it is actaly not part of the male anatomy but rather something that it produces)

As for the reversal of a polymorph on a pregnat person, they gestation would continue (even in the man as we have a vestigual womb) and would eventualy come to term as the original thing concieved, not what the new form of the person is.

A person already pregant who is polymorped would be in much the same position as a preson who had a polymorph reversed.

I think I'll run the Type thing on a case by case basis blending parts of the two souls as I see fit.

One Idea I am toying with is to have the "Mother" Stuck in the current form until after the pregnacy goes to term and perhapse even a little while afterwards so that the child can be properly weined (spelling?) say for at least six months to a year. Could provide for some interesting roleplaying.

Hope this helps John

I'm sure we'll all be working out the kinks in whatever system we decide to use for some time to come.

I also like to run Polymorph so that the normal Chemical based "Instincs" based on smells (Pharamones) and such are based on the body and have a direct effect on the mind. This makes it is that a woman transformed into a man would find women sexualy attractive and would find themselves thinking about sex all the time (excess testosterone). And Visaversa.

Note:
I may edit this or repost later, must go home to wife now before she calls. Work day over 1/2 hour ago, have to pick up dinner for hockey game, go Canucks.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

But polymorph does add organs. If you turn into a fish, you get gills to extract oxygen from the water. While related to our lungs, gills are not the same.

I personaly prefer a description that changes the body completely from one form to another rather than some sort of "Warp effect" as implied by The Sigil (nothing wrong with his view either).

Damn, beat me to it. While this would be an interesting spell, its not polymorph as it stands. Its possible that a truely wonky type (like myself) would respond to this by making polymorph do what most people assume it should (change one thing into another in a way that makes consistent sense) and raising the level slightly to acount for extraordinary abilities. Then you add a spell even lower level than polymorph and call it topolomorph to do the things sigil is suggesting. Which could not turn a person into a fish that can survive in water, or a dog into a snake with working poison glands (or to a certain extent a giant spider into a drow, since bone and skin are organs) but could do mammal to mammal pretty well.

Just out of curiousity, do people apply this interpretation of the polymorph spell to wildshape, esp the elementals? If so... um, what is the point of the ability? Seems like it would be easier to do a "megan from excalibur" thing and let the druid just get a little bigger/smaller/stronger/faster/add claws (but not multiple attacks... dear god, does anyone not let druids use multiple attacks in wildshape?) Or is there a big ol' adendum to wildshape to make it not the same as polymorph? Blink Blink.... whoa what about scent?

Kahuna Burger

 

[Kahuna Burger]

One Idea I am toying with is to have the "Mother" Stuck in the current form until after the pregnacy goes to term and perhapse even a little while afterwards so that the child can be properly weined (spelling?) say for at least six months to a year. Could provide for some interesting roleplaying.

Danger, will robinson, DANGER!!! Could and would make being female a completely unballancing occurance, which strikes me as against both the letter and spirit of the rules as written. If you are not a druid (or to some extent other spellcaster) you have "second save" (check to see if I'm pregnant and didn't know yet!) against a spell based on your gender, and if you are a druid... well, lets just say that if any stage of pregnancy inhibited polymorph, the iconic druid would not be female.

I also like to run Polymorph so that the normal Chemical based "Instincs" based on smells (Pharamones) and such are based on the body and have a direct effect on the mind. This makes it is that a woman transformed into a man would find women sexualy attractive and would find themselves thinking about sex all the time (excess testosterone). And Visaversa.

Gah! More Danger! Red alert! (ehem) I mean, if no one in your groups is (or is close to) a gay, lesbian, trans or otherwise "not gender stereotyped" individual, I guess telling a person what their characters personality would be based on sex would be... fine... *twitch*

And if your players are willing to have their roleplaying a new form limited by your assumptions rather than their own ideas... *double twitch*

Kahuna Burger

 

[KingCroMag]

Wasn't there a page on wizards (either a adventure or location hook) that describe a transmuter who turned dogs and rats into more valuable pets and operated a ranch to breed polymorphed animals. I know web based things do not have the precedence as the core rules, but something to think about.

-KCM

 

[Centaur]

Wow, after tonights Hocky game, I may just write off the sport all together. I'll know tommorow night.

At any rate.

Danger, will robinson, DANGER!!! Could and would make being female a completely unballancing occurance, which strikes me as against both the letter and spirit of the rules as written.

As I said, only toying with the idea. Likely what will happen is that I will use this idea as a one off freak occurence (a curse if you will) on an NPC that cannot afford the political ramifications of the situation and hire the PC's to do something about it.

Gah! More Danger! Red alert! (ehem) I mean, if no one in your groups is (or is close to) a gay, lesbian, trans or otherwise "not gender stereotyped" individual, I guess telling a person what their characters personality would be based on sex would be... fine... *twitch*

Some people are more "Open Minded" than others. In my group there are one or two people who could roleplay the situation and one or two that would have such a problem with that they would just never put themselves into the situation (and I won't force it on them).

However as a male DM, with a mostly male players, I quite often find myself roleplaying the other side of "Romantic" encounters in many a game. While I would never even think about a guy in that way in real life, I have no problem protraying it in the game universe. A certain amount of detatchment is always neccecary.

Course, it could be used a different way. A PC turned into a cow or horse may suddenly find the smell and taste of grass appetizing. At leaste they won't starve while their stuck this way till the party reverses the effect.

Remember that it's all about escapeism and "fantasy" roleplaying. Besides, we as people have instinctual urges to do many things that society calls illegal, such as killing and such. However we have the will and the trained politeness to hold ourselves back, most of the time.

I personaly think that the Art of Shapechanging in any roleplaying scenario is vastly underrated. I however probably use it far to much.

Anyway, enough off topic, back to the thread...

Some have said that the ability to procreate should be ex ability or such. While this may be one way to solve the dilema I don't think I will use it in my game.

I generaly view any ability that is labled as EX, SP, or SU as something that gives the character or entity a game system advantage. I don't think, in most cases, being able to become or induce pregnancy would be an advantage to the characte, expecialy the way most of us play the game. The last thing we want is to be tied down with this sort of responsibility (in the game).

Therefore, if anything it is a disadvantage of a natural nature, just like a small creatures strenght or a large creaters dexterity. It could be used to great ends by an imaginative DM. Just don't over use.

At any rate, I half expected this post to be ignored or trashed after a few posts, so I'm happy to see that in the first few days of my posting to this site I could generate such a hail of comments.

Keep Posting, less the lines become dusty....

 

[Hypersmurf]

I generaly view any ability that is labled as EX, SP, or SU as something that gives the character or entity a game system advantage.

Light Sensitivity (Ex): Orcs suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.

-Hyp.

 

[tarchon]

I was kicking this around a while ago, a template, untested, un-UL approved:

Monster Title: Shiftling
Type: shapechanger
Hit Dice: as base creature
Initiative: as base creature
Speed: as base creature
AC: as base creature
Attacks: as base creature
Damage: as base creature
Face/Reach: as base creature
Special Attacks: as base creature
Special Qualities: Unstable Form (Su)
Saves: +2 racial bonus vs. Transmutation spells and effects
Abilities: as base creature
Skills: as base creature
Feats: as base creature
Climate/Terrain: as base creature
Organization: as base creature
Challenge Rating: as higher of base creatures + 1
Treasure: as base creature
Alignment: as base creature
Advancement: as base creature

Description: Shiftlings are the offspring of transformed creatures.
While the natural form of some parental beings, such as dragons, shows strongly
in offspring begotten even in a polymorphed state, for most creatures,
such offspring appear to be perfectly normal examples of their born
type. The shiftling's dual heritage only reveals itself clearly when
it is exposed to transmutation magic.

Unstable Form (Su) - A shiftling affected by any form of Transmutation magic
other than its own immediately shifts to its alternate form. A saving throw
is allowed per the spell (or effect's) description, however the only effect
experienced by the shiftling is the transformation. This effect is permanent
until a subsequent Transmutation effect shifts the creature's form again.
Unlike with Polymorph spells, the shiftling gains all abilities of its current
form, including Supernatural abilities. All ability scores are
altered (not just the physical abilities) as well and the shiftling even tends
to take on psychological traits of the new form.
However the creature type always remains Shapechanger (notably making them
immune to spells that specifically affect other types, such as Humanoid), and
the specific details of the alternate form are consistent between transformations,
resembling the original form in traits which are common to both, such as gender
and relative age, height, and weight. After the first transformation experience,
a shiftling forever radiates a faint Transmutation aura. True Sight reveals an
image of the creature constantly and randomly shifting between its two native forms.

A shiftling PC has the option of choosing Transmuter as its favored class,
and, as noted, a shiftling's own Transmutation spells (or other magical effects)
affect the shiftling normally. Additionally, shiftling spellcasters automatically
gain Spell Focus (Transmutation) as a free feat, though they can never take
Transmutation as an opposition school for school specialization.

Shiftlings tend to feel an unexplained affinity for creatures of their alternate
form before discovering their true nature (many live and die without ever
discovering it), and sometimes, though not always, develop deep feelings of
alienation from their birth species. They commonly have very mercurial
temperaments and a strong leaning towards Chaos, whatever the natural tendencies
of their native forms.

 

[Sejs]

I generaly view any ability that is labled as EX, SP, or SU as something that gives the character or entity a game system advantage.

Vulnerable to Blessed Crossbow Bolts (Ex): Any hit scored with a blessed crossbow bolt instantly slays a Rakshasa.


It's great, if a Rakshasa polymorphs for some reason the only ability they keep is their neato power to die instantly to anyone with a crossbow, bolt, and enough pocket change to give god a phonecall.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sunlight Vulnerability (Ex): Bodaks loathe sunlight, for its merest touch burns their impure flesh. Each round of exposure to the direct rays of the sun deals 1 point of damage to the creature.

Flashbacks (Ex): From time to time, a bodak sees something that reminds it of its almost-forgotten life. At the start of every encounter, there is a 5% chance that it notices something about an opponent (randomly determined, if more than one opponent is present) that causes it to recall its life. If this happens, the bodak takes no action for 1 round and thereafter suffers a -2 morale penalty to all attacks directed at that opponent.

-Hyp.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Some people are more "Open Minded" than others. In my group there are one or two people who could roleplay the situation and one or two that would have such a problem with that they would just never put themselves into the situation (and I won't force it on them).

However as a male DM, with a mostly male players, I quite often find myself roleplaying the other side of "Romantic" encounters in many a game. While I would never even think about a guy in that way in real life, I have no problem protraying it in the game universe. A certain amount of detatchment is always neccecary.

You know, I honestly have no idea how this is supposed to relate or respond to the concerns of mine it came after. And without dragging the thread into potentially political waters, there is no way to find out. So I'll settle for the suggestion that you seriously missed the point, and not bother with a more detailed commentary.

Kahuna Burger