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Polymorph Self - NO Extraordinary Abilities???

Henry@home

First Post
I was reading the newest description of Polymorph self (in the Psi Handbook errata), and it says that (quoting) "You do not gain the supernatural abilities (such as breath weapons and gaze attacks) or the extraordinary abilities of the new creature."

However, Pcat and others have been saying that you DO gain the Extraordinary abilites?

I went back, all the way to Dragon 275, and it has been saying the SAME thing all along - that extraordinary abilities of the change-form are not gained.

NO rust-maonster sea gulls, no regenerating Troll PC's, ANYthing.

Does anyone know whch is official, and if so, where can it be found?

Caliban? anyone?
 
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Ds Da Man

First Post
I dont think Caliban is necessary. In Tome and blood, they have the errated version of polymorph other and self, and you gain no special abilites, just natural abilities of the creature. Still, polymorph into a young golden dragon (14 HD, 25 Str), then add bulls strength, enlarge, cats grace, mage armor, and sheild, and who cares about the special abilities. Also, you don't gain the extra off hand attacks as the creature your changing into.
 

Lord Pendragon

First Post
Henry@home said:
NO rust-maonster sea gulls, no regenerating Troll PC's, ANYthing.

You aren't looking at it from both sides, Henry. When you use any of the polymorph spells, there's a base creature and an assumed form.

You are right, in that creatures get none of the supernatural, spell-like, or extraordinary abilities of the assumed form.

However, the spell does allow creatures to retain the extraordinary abilities of the base creature.

You've provided two examples. In the first, Piratecat's rustmonster seagulls do, indeed, have the ability to rust metal equipment. The polymorph formula in this case looks like this:

Rust Monster (base creature with extraordinary rusting ability) --> Seagull (assumed form, but retains rusting ability.)

Your Troll example's formula would look like this:

Human PC (base creature, no regenerating power) --> Troll (assumed form, does not gain troll's regenerating power.)

As you can see, you're right. It doesn't work because the ability in question belongs to the assumed form and not the base creature. However, this situation would work just fine:

Troll (base creature, has extraordinary regeneration) --> Human (assumed form, retains extraordinary regeneration ability.)
 
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Number47

First Post
Let me just further add that the ninth-level spell Shapechange does give you full Extraordinary powers, but not Spell-like or Supernatural.
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Let me also add that the monster manual should really be updated with an additional category of "Natural Abilities"

This would include things like Constrict, Pounce, Swallow, Rake, Improved Grab.

These should all be fully available to a polymorphed form IMO.

They are quite different to abilities that seem magical like regeneration, corrosive slime or spell resistance. Also different from poison and webs, which would require some of the polymorphed creature to be detached and retain potency or stickiness or whatever.

End of minor rant :)
 

terror

Villager
@Lord Pendragon, that is the biggest load of crap I've ever read.

Probably a lord of cognative dissonance, that's clearly not how it works and it tells you straight, you are just doing mental gymnastics to ignore the rules.

If this was the case, the master transmographist wouldn't exist.

You want polymorph special abilities and the whole shabang? Get master transmographist, end of discussion.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
@Lord Pendragon, that is the biggest load of crap I've ever read.

Probably a lord of cognative dissonance, that's clearly not how it works and it tells you straight, you are just doing mental gymnastics to ignore the rules.

If this was the case, the master transmographist wouldn't exist.

You want polymorph special abilities and the whole shabang? Get master transmographist, end of discussion.
You’re replying to somebody 19 years ago.
 



Well every time I search for a topic on google these old posts shouldn't come up lol.

Only thing to reply to.
It happens around here basically every day, though not so often with a thread quite this old. I certainly can't speak for the whole community but I think the general consensus around here is that nobody really minds if you try to continue conversations from decades ago, we just want you, and the next person who tries to join in, to know that that's what you're doing.

Also many of us find it funny. In this instance I for one am particularly amused by how hot you came in denouncing rules interpretations that were 19 years cold, and that you reopened a long dead discussion and ended your post with the phrase "end of discussion." That's some grade A thread necromancy there.

I, however, do have a small bone to pick with the dual complaints that this thread "shouldn't come up" in a google search and that there was nothing else in your google search to reply to. Clearly, from the latter, you wanted a result in your google search you could reply to, so it seems strange to object to the search engine providing the one it could find for you.
 


J.Quondam

CR 1/8
I, however, do have a small bone to pick with the dual complaints that this thread "shouldn't come up" in a google search and that there was nothing else in your google search to reply to. Clearly, from the latter, you wanted a result in your google search you could reply to, so it seems strange to object to the search engine providing the one it could find for you.
Probably this is how it went down:
"Hey google, I'm feeling salty!"
"Okay, let me help you with that. Here's a 19 year-old forum thread on the polymorph self spell in 3rd edition D&D. Enjoy!"
.
 

Also many of us find it funny. In this instance I for one am particularly amused by how hot you came in denouncing rules interpretations that were 19 years cold, and that you reopened a long dead discussion and ended your post with the phrase "end of discussion." That's some grade A thread necromancy there.

Bonus points for the fact that the rant about someone "doing mental gymnastics to ignore the rules" isn't even about the some edition of the rules. The master transmographist (and Complete Arcane) are 3.5e, the OP was from the 3.0 days.
 


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