Polymorph

[Thanee]

You add the effect of one on top of the other (to derive duration), how is that not stacking?

Or in other words, it's impossible to derive the effect with the second casting alone, so it obviously needs to be stacked on top of the first to get there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Diirk]

You add the effect of one on top of the other (to derive duration), how is that not stacking?

Or in other words, it's impossible to derive the effect with the second casting alone, so it obviously needs to be stacked on top of the first to get there.

By that reasoning a druid can't be the subject animal growth after he polymorphs into an animal (even if its the same size as him, so we don't confuse the issue with the multiple size changing argument), as the second spell can't exist on the target without the first, so clearly its stacked...

In the case of the multiple polymorph any objects, all aspects of the first are replaced by the second casting (ability changes, size, etc etc) and while the duration of the second is in some measure dependant on the first being there at the time of casting, if the first is dispelled afterwards, the second remains with no change to the end result and vice versa... thats clearly not stacking.

I admit it is a bit broken tho and should probably be house ruled away

 

[Thanee]

By that reasoning a druid can't be the subject animal growth after he polymorphs into an animal (even if its the same size as him, so we don't confuse the issue with the multiple size changing argument), as the second spell can't exist on the target without the first, so clearly its stacked...

Uhm... those are different spell effects and can be stacked.

Yes, they are stacked, too.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Combining Magical Effects

Bye
Thanee

 

[Diirk]

To quote your link:

Same Effect with Differing Results
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.

One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant
Sometimes, one spell can render a later spell irrelevant. Both spells are still active, but one has rendered the other useless in some fashion.

In both cases, the first polymorph is still there and active, it just ceases to matter. That is, it doesn't grant any bonuses because the bonuses from the 2nd spell overwrite them. But when you cast the 2nd spell, you are a titan* not a human as a result of the first spell. The second spell changes you into a titan for a longer duration and the fact that the first spell is there becomes irrelevant (it doesn't magically disappear... it just doesn't matter that its there at the moment). When the second is dispelled, if the first hasn't expired you are still a titan, you wouldn't revert to a human.

I'm not quite sure how you think its not inline with the rules (but it does go against common sense).

 

[Thanee]

Well, because I think, that both spell effects have to be seen independant of each other, since they are not allowed to stack.

While it makes a difference to the spell taking effect or not, what type you currently are, it should not be that type, but rather your original type on which the spell effect is based in this case, because of the overlapping.

A similar question would be, if a human is subject to a Hold Person spell and then transformed into a giant via a Polymorph spell. Would the Hold Person still hold the polymorphed human or not?

I'd say no, because the spell cannot affect giants.

Now why is that similar? On the first glance it looks like the opposite of what I'm saying.

The similarity is, that I believe the prerequisites should be met all the time (exceptions exist, of course, if a spell itself alters the target in a way, to make its own prerequisites invalid, like the Shillelagh spell), not just once at the beginning and then forgotten about.

Bye
Thanee

 

[IcyCool]

The similarity is, that I believe the prerequisites should be met all the time, not just once at the beginning and then forgotten about.

Bye
Thanee

I agree with you that stacking multiple Polymorphs doesn't work, but this last line in your arguement invalidates the Shillelagh spell.

 

[Thanee]

How so?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

How so?

Bye
Thanee

The target of shillelagh is "one nonmagical club."

While the spell is active, the club is magical.

Ergo, if continuous target checking is the way spells are supposed to work, shillelagh never works, because it invalidates itself as soon as it is cast.

Target: One touched nonmagical oak club or quarterstaff
...
Your own nonmagical club or quarterstaff becomes a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. (A quarterstaff gains this enhancement for both ends of the weapon.)

 

[Nail]

How so?

Eeeek! ...not this again.....

Shillelagh only works on non magical sticks. Once you cast the spell on the stick, it becomes magical.......which means the spell no longer works on it, and the spell fizzles an instant after it is cast.....