Pounce for standard actions?

[kitcik]

Well, I am just wondering theoretically but I guess I could give examples. If a person had pounce outside of maneuvers and was a martial adept could he use one of his strike maneuvers instead of a full attack? Another one I could think of is using spring attack instead of a full attack to move past an opponent while attacking.

So let me rephrase your question:

The Pounce ability allows you to take a full attack on a charge rather than a single attack.

If you have the Pounce ability, can you instead substitute a standard action attack, other than a single attack, for the full attack?

This appears reasonable as standard attack action would generally take less time than a full attack.

Examples would include using a feat (Spring Attack) or a maneuver (ToB) that include an attack and would normally require expending a standard action.

I definitely think that the RAW answer is no. The charge action only allows a single attack and the Pounce ability onlly allows for the substitution of a full attack for that single attack. I think that is intentional to prevent abuses.

However, as a DM, I might allow it if the substitution was not abusive.

 

[the Jester]

The rules are clear: no.

 

[Trance-Zg]

One example for this would be:

If I have pounce and whirlwind attack can I make whirlwind at the end of charge or just normal full attack?

2nd example: surprise round, can I get full attack with pounce with just partial charge action(its still a charge attack)?

 

[emoplato]

One example for this would be:

If I have pounce and whirlwind attack can I make whirlwind at the end of charge or just normal full attack?

2nd example: surprise round, can I get full attack with pounce with just partial charge action(its still a charge attack)?

1. Yes
2. Yes, you can so long as you have something that allows you to consider something a charge without the usual full-round option. Boots of the battle charger does a charge for a standard action with only a single move allowed. Also Battle Jump allows falling from ten or more feet on top of an opponent to be a charge.

 

[Empirate]

Whirlwind attack explicitly only functions on a full attack action. Charge is its own full round action, even pounce only allows you to "make a full attack", not "take a full attack action". So no Whirlwind Pounce.

On your second question I'm of divided mind. I don't allow it in my game (Pounce is pretty devastating as is, no need to make it even easier to pull off), but the rules text may support it.

 

[emoplato]

So let me rephrase your question:



I definitely think that the RAW answer is no. The charge action only allows a single attack and the Pounce ability onlly allows for the substitution of a full attack for that single attack. I think that is intentional to prevent abuses.

However, as a DM, I might allow it if the substitution was not abusive.

Fair enough, but I don't see the rules dismissing it though, to me it just frames around it but doesn't actually say no.

 

[Trance-Zg]

Whirlwind attack explicitly only functions on a full attack action. Charge is its own full round action, even pounce only allows you to "make a full attack", not "take a full attack action". So no Whirlwind Pounce.

On your second question I'm of divided mind. I don't allow it in my game (Pounce is pretty devastating as is, no need to make it even easier to pull off), but the rules text may support it.

mentioning action in this context is splitting hairs

and about ambush pounce its favorite DM tactics for ambushing tigers

and really, if a tiger pounces you...you're dead.

 

[kitcik]

I agree with [MENTION=78958]Empirate[/MENTION] about both.

I do think the rules support a Pounce in a surprise round <partial> charge and I would allow it, although I understand why Empirate would not.

 

[Greenfield]

The question seems to be, can a creature with Pounce decide to forgo its use?

That is, can he Charge, then take a single attack instead of the "full attack action" the Pounce entitles them to.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

[emoplato]

The question seems to be, can a creature with Pounce decide to forgo its use?

That is, can he Charge, then take a single attack instead of the "full attack action" the Pounce entitles them to.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

No, because a single attack isn't necessarily equatable to a standard action. A person with TWF or natural weapons can attack multiple times in a standard action. Heck, Flyby attack allows an attack in the move action. The question since a full-attack requires more time and effort to do than a standard action, could someone with pounce use an option that would be a standard action that still involves an attack of sort instead of the full attack. I think of it as like someone choosing a double move instead of a typical standard action, move action turn.