Powefrul Build: What EXACTLY does it give you...

[coyote6]

However, the NPC Half Giant in the book wields a Large greatsword, which suggests that the Powerful Build ability as written is incorrect, and should state that he wields Large weapons as a Large creature, rather than 'without penalty'.

FWIW, the half-giant psychic warrior miniature (from Giants of Legend) also wields a Large greatsword with no apparent penalty (IIRC).

 

[Hypersmurf]

FWIW, the half-giant psychic warrior miniature (from Giants of Legend) also wields a Large greatsword with no apparent penalty (IIRC).

Sure. Further evidence that what was intended and what was written are not the same

Designers should really sit down with a rules lawyer once a week and say "This is what I've put together this week. This is what I want this mechanic to do; this is how I've worded it. Are the two the same?"

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Sure. Further evidence that what was intended and what was written are not the same

Designers should really sit down with a rules lawyer once a week and say "This is what I've put together this week. This is what I want this mechanic to do; this is how I've worded it. Are the two the same?"

-Hyp.

Well, how much do they pay ?

 

[The Souljourner]

But does he get Large Unarmed Damage for a monk?

Yes. It's a Special Attack Based on Size.

I don't see this at all. The half giant is considered larger "when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him."

It says nothing about his own special attacks, just those his opponents use on him. Half Giant monk does medium damage.

-The Souljourner

 

[Staffan]

It says nothing about his own special attacks, just those his opponents use on him. Half Giant monk does medium damage.

I'd say he does Large damage. The idea of having unarmed damage depend on size is that it should scale with weapon damage. Since the half-giant can use Large weapons (which is clearly the intention, at least), he should get Large unarmed damage too.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd say he does Large damage. The idea of having unarmed damage depend on size is that it should scale with weapon damage. Since the half-giant can use Large weapons (which is clearly the intention, at least), he should get Large unarmed damage too.

He can use Large weapons, but he doesn't have to. If he chooses to use Medium weapons, they deal normal damage.

His fists are Medium weapons; if he chooses to use them, they deal damage as a Medium unarmed strike.

I could probably be persuaded to let him upsize his damage with Large gauntlets... but that doesn't help a monk.

I could also be persuaded to let him deal Large unarmed strike damage by beating someone with a forearm torn off an ogre.

-Hyp.

 

[xazil]

He can use Large weapons, but he doesn't have to. If he chooses to use Medium weapons, they deal normal damage.
-Hyp.

To go further with this point, is a Half Giant treated as both a medium and large creature for use of weapons? Can the ability to do both be mixed?
If his build lets him use both sizes it opens a number of interesting/disturbing doors.

If he can use a large longsword or a medium greatsword without penalty, then can he use the medium greatsword one handed without the -2 a large creature would incur?

The greatsword example makes some sense but what about when applied to a medium reach weapon like a longspear, glaive or spiked chain? One handed use along with a shield? Use two of them for two weapon fighting, albeit with the penalty of a non-light offhand weapon?

 

[Hypersmurf]

To go further with this point, is a Half Giant treated as both a medium and large creature for use of weapons?

We don't know.

He's obviously a Medium creature, so he can wield weapons as a Medium creature.

Powerful Build, though, is unclear.

The sample NPC wields a Large greatsword with no penalty. If we assume this is intentional, then we know that Powerful Build doesn't do what it says it does (or at least, not just what it says it does).

Possibilities:

1. Can wield Large weapons without penalty. (As written, but disproven by the sample NPC.)
2. Can wield Large weapons as though a Large creature.
3. Can wield weapons as though a Large creature.

In case 2, the Half Giant cannot wield a Huge longsword in two hands. Nor can he wield a Medium greatsword in one hand. Like Monkey Grip, the ability only affects weapons of one size category.

In case 3, he can do both of the above, because he is considered a Large creature. However, he would take a -2 penalty in both cases, since a Large creature wielding a Medium greatsword in one hand or wielding a Huge longsword in two hands is inappropriately-sized. He could wield the Medium greatsword in two hands at no penalty by considering himself a Medium creature, or a Large greatsword in two hands at no penalty by considering himself a Large creature.

The sample NPC's greatsword does not give us sufficient information to distinguish between cases 2 and 3.

The next question in cases 2 and 3, of course, is whether Monkey Grip applies to the Half-Giant's effective Large size for wielding weapons, or his actual Medium size.

-Hyp.