Power Assessment of the Prestige Classes (A List)

enough sub-par feats to make a difference
That's where we differ, I think. Consider the Mage-Killer (pre-req feats include Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Casting, Martial Weapon Proficiency) for instance - four feats "down the drain" that would be better spent on something like Spell Focus for the average caster. I think that makes a non-trivial difference to the character's effectiveness.
 

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rounser said:
That's where we differ, I think. Consider the Mage-Killer (pre-req feats include Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Casting, Martial Weapon Proficiency) for instance - four feats "down the drain" that would be better spent on something like Spell Focus for the average caster. I think that makes a non-trivial difference to the character's effectiveness.

A lot of spellcasters will get Combat Casting anyway, and playing an elf gives you a couple of free martial weapon proficiencies (or you could just drop a level into a class with martial weapon proficiencies ... or just play a Druid Mage-Killer). That just leaves you with Great Fortitude and Lightning Reflexes to go. Since those are weak saves for many spellcasters, you'd probably have reason to be glad of them in the future, anyway.
 


IMHO, the gnome artificer is only *. Sure, it works "always" (that is, even in dead-magic zone or wild-magic zone, unless it's powered by shadow magic). Yes, you ignore SR.

But the save DCs are ridiculously low (10 +1 1/2 times level of emulated spell, rounded down); and the class is, in effect, a forced multiclassed spellcaster. First rule of multiclassing: multiclassed spellcasters suck. (And they got the shaft, too.) Besides, the class is extremely expensive (when you're a wizard, casting a spell costs you nothing outside of the possible M component). Which means your GP will go on functionnal costs. Which means you'll have less magic items that boosts you.
 

Warmaster is only *?!

You get a free Huge Castle at 10th level...that's worth a cool million gp. For that reason alone, it's worth at least a **: that single asset is more than the total wealth of a 20th level PC.

Of course, if your cohort is also a Warmaster, and as is his etc....four huge castles, two castles, two keeps and two towers.

Worth 5,220,000gp :)

Not to mention a moderate-large army of followers.
 

The Warmaster's CR is not modified by any of his abilities. Also, he doesn't get that castle until he's reached 10th level in Warmaster.


Here's some more summary from Dragon magazine too:
Dragon Magazine (Backwards from 306)
306 – None
305 – None
304 – None
303 - GLADIATORS
Invisible Blade – Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;***
Occult Slayer – Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;***
Reaping Mauler - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;***
302 TAINTED & GREYHAWK
Tainted Warrior or Spellcaster: Any 3 except Wiz/Sor 4;**
Mask of Johydee - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;**
301 – None
300 VILE CONTENT + FLESHEATER HALFLINGS
Faceless One: Wiz 3 + Rog 2;**
Deep Thrall: Any 5;**
Shoal Servant: Clr/Dru1 + Brb/Ftr/Sam4 or Pal/Rng5;**
Tiger Mask: Any 2 + Clr/Wiz 3 ;***
Flesheater: Halfling; Rog 5;***
299 – NERULL MONKS + WARCRAFT III
Reaper’s Child- Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng/Mnk5; **
Monk of Enabled Hand - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng/Mnk5; **
Dwarven Thane - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng6; ***
Orc Blademaster - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng6; ***
298 - ASHEN COMPACT VS. DROW + EXILES FROM THE VAULT + BATTLE REALMS
Deep Avenger - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng7; ***
Gloomblade - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng7;***
Gray Sage – Wiz7/Sor8; ***
Bloodsister - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng6; **
Nightshade – Wiz/Sor1 + Rog3 or Brd 4; ***
Kabuki Warrior-Brd/Wiz/Sor1+Ftr5;**
Dragon Warrior-Ftr/Rng6;***
297 – EPIC + MASTER OF THE SECRET SOUND + LIV. GREYHAWK
Shadar Sentinel- Wiz/Sor18; **
Soulreaver-Rog21; ***
Arcane Lord – Wiz/Sor22;***
Bow Master – Bbn/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng21;**
Perfected one –Mnk21; ***
Stalwart warden – Bbn/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng21;**
Unholy Ravager - Bbn/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng21;**
World Guardian – Rng/Drd21; ***
Master of the Secret Sound – Wiz9/Sor10 or Brd13; **
Knight of the Chase - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 6;**
296 – DRAGON HUNTERS+DRAGON+MONSTER PRC’S+MONK
Dragonscribe – Wiz/Sor10;***
Knight of the Scale - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 6;**
Heartseeker – Brd/Wiz/Sor5 + Ftr1; **
Vengeance sworn – Brb1+Rng 5;**
Dragon Mystic – Dragon; **
Sphere Minion – any5; ***
Illithidkin – Psion/PsiWar5;**
Snake Servant – Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;**
Waker of the Beast - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng7;***
Acolyte of the Fist – Mnk5; **
295 – THE WAY OF THE FIST
Primal Rager – Bbn 8; **
Fierce Grappler - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 6;**
Brawler - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 7;**
294 – SAILOR + CLASS ACTS+FAITHS OF FAERUN
Windsinger – Brd7; **
Nightsong Infiltrator – Rog10; ***
Green Hunter – Rng4; ***
293- NONE
292 – WILDERNESS
Cave Stalker-Dwarf + Rng5; **
Fiend Binder-Orc/half-orc+Drd/Rng5;**
Prairie Runner – Halfling+Rng/Bbn5; *
Darkwood Stalker-Elf/half-elf+Rng/Bbn5;**
291 GNOME GIANT KILLER
Gnome Giant Killer - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;***
290 GREYHAWK JUSTICAR + FAITHS OF FAERUN
Justicar - Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 6;***
Dancer of Sharess – Clr6; ***




Em
 

Emirikol said:


Arcane Archer-elfblood, Ftr6+Wiz/Sor1; **


No way. The Arcane Archer is perhaps one of the most abused prestige classes in the game.



Master Samuari-Ftr5;**
Ninja o/t Crescent Moon-Mnk8, Ftr6+Mnk1, Rog3/Ftr4 or Ftr4/Mnk3;**
Weapon Master-Ftr6, Ftr4+Rog2 (Spring Attack requirement for Whirlwind Attack) ;**

I'd rate all of these at ***- they're also very abused... especially the Ninja.


Dragon Disciple-Sor/Brd5 or Bbn2+Sor4 or Bbn2+Brd4;**

A rather weak class, actually- I'd downgrade it to a *.


Mage o/t Arcane Order-Wiz5 or Sor5+Arcane Prep feat; **

For Sorcerers, this one should be a ***, if not a ****! Using the spellpool practically lets them bypass the main disadvantage of the class- their lack of spell selection!!! The most powerful caster I've ever seen was a triple-classed Sorcerer/Mage of the Arcane Order/Elementalist.


Spellsword-Wiz3+Ftr3 or Sor4 + Ftr2 or Bbn2 +Sor4;**
True Necromancer-Wiz5/Sor6+C5 with death domain;**

I'd lower both of these as well. Neither performs particularly well, for the same reason- they both have lowered spell progressions, one way or another.


Hospitaler-Ftr/Pal/Rng/Brb4;***

This one is best used with a Cleric, actually- they recieve full spellcasting, plus better combat abilities and a prestige domain- they don't lose much by taking it.


Virtuoso-Brd7 or Rog6+Wiz/Sor1 or Rog1+Wiz6;**

For a sorcerer, this should be a ***. They've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.



Tempest-Rng/Brb/Ftr9 ( wasted) ;*

You're significantly underrating this class. Significantly.
 

Cool, thanks! I got those updated. I still don't see what's so great about the Tempest by 5th level as opposed to just being a Ranger instead. Regardless, I moved it up to two stars for now.

Em
 

Emirikol said:



**Dungeonmaster’s Guide**
Arcane Archer-elfblood, Ftr6+Wiz/Sor1; **


I'd also change this class to ***. Especially if you are more of a caster, the spells you can put on your arrows really hurt. And the free +s are extremely nice as well.



**Sword & Fist**
Devoted Defender-Ftr5;***
Drunken Master-Mnk6;***


What's so great about the Devoted Defender and Drunken Master? The Devoted Defender in particular strikes me as odd. They are not a very impressive class, and I've seen few people take more than a level or two in them.


Ninja o/t Crescent Moon-Mnk8, Ftr6+Mnk1, Rog3/Ftr4 or Ftr4/Mnk3;**


Just thought I'd chime in with a response to Tyler, with the errata, this class isn't really overpowered anymore.


Warmaster-Ftr7;*


I'd agree this class should be two *s, in most campaigns. Unless your campaign is pure combat, the added skills and extra bonuses Warmasters gain more than make up for the feats you lose.



**Tome & Blood**

Alienist-Wiz5/Sor6; **


I think these guys deserve three *s. They are extremely powerful, and lose almost nothing in exchange for several very good abilities.


Arcane Trickster-Wiz5/Sor6+Rog4 or Rog 4/Wiz 4/Lore 1 or Brd7+Rog3; ** or ***(for sorcerers)


I think these guys should be three *s. There is practically no reason NOT to take this class if you are playing a multiclassed Rogue/Arcane Caster.



Mage o/t Arcane Order-Wiz5 or Sor5+Arcane Prep feat; **


I'm open to disagreement on my other selections, but there is no way this class is just two *s. They are one of the most powerful caster classes in the game, thanks to the spellpool. They get other nice abilities too, but the spellpool is what makes them so amazing. It ends a Sorcerers lack of flexibility, and ends a Wizards lack of spells. Perhaps THE most powerful caster class in the game, with the exception of the Archmage.



True Necromancer-Wiz5/Sor6+C5 with death domain;**


They are just one star. Being a pure Cleric or Arcane Caster is better in every way. Pathetic abilities, reduced spellcasting progression, one of the weakest PRCs out there.


**Defenders of the Faith**

Holy Liberator-Brb5, Rng5;**


I think they should be three *s. Practically all of the benefits of the Paladin class, with none of the restrictions.




Arcane Devotee – Wiz7/Sor8; ***


Why are they three *s? They get spell progression and a few nice abilities, but so do many of the Prestige Classes in T&B that you gave only two *s. This goes for most of the caster classes you gave three *s in the Faerun books.
[/quote][/b]


Divine Champion - Ftr/Bbn/Rng/Pal7;***


Not really seeing why you would rate this at three *s. Many other classes for Fighters are better, that you only gave two *s. I'd say the same thing about the Divine Seeker, as well.



Hierophant – Clr/Dru13; ***


I can't agree with this, either. The abilities you get are great, but losing spell progression hurts. A nice tradeoff, but not any more powerful than continuing Cleric or Druid progression.


Magic of Faerun
Gnome Artificer – Ilu1/Rog4;**


One *. If not zero.






Comments, corrections and feedback are welcome.

Nice thread. I strongly disagree with your rating of most of the FRCS PrCs, but otherwise they seem mostly accurate. Good idea, and I look forward to seeing the finalized list in a few months. :)
 

Here's the complete list from DRAGON, DUNGEON, and Dragon Annual #5.

I didn't do a complete assessment of levels because I didn't have time. Anyone care to take a look through their Dragons and make an assessment?

Jay


Dragon Magazine (Backwards from 306)
306 – None
305 – None
304 – None
303 - GLADIATORS
Invisible Blade – Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;***
Occult Slayer – Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;***
Reaping Mauler - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;***
302 TAINTED & GREYHAWK
Tainted Warrior or Spellcaster: Any 3 except Wiz/Sor 4;**
Mask of Johydee - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;**
301 – None
300 VILE CONTENT + FLESHEATER HALFLINGS
Faceless One: Wiz 3 + Rog 2;**
Deep Thrall: Any 5;**
Shoal Servant: Clr/Dru1 + Brb/Ftr/Sam4 or Pal/Rng5;**
Tiger Mask: Any 2 + Clr/Wiz 3 ;***
Flesheater: Halfling; Rog 5;***
299 – NERULL MONKS + WARCRAFT III
Reaper’s Child- Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng/Mnk5; **
Monk of Enabled Hand - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng/Mnk5; **
Dwarven Thane - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng6; ***
Orc Blademaster - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng6; ***
298 - ASHEN COMPACT VS. DROW + EXILES FROM THE VAULT + BATTLE REALMS
Deep Avenger - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng7; ***
Gloomblade - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng7;***
Gray Sage – Wiz7/Sor8; ***
Bloodsister - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng6; **
Nightshade – Wiz/Sor1 + Rog3 or Brd 4; ***
Kabuki Warrior-Brd/Wiz/Sor1+Ftr5;**
Dragon Warrior-Ftr/Rng6;***
297 – EPIC + MASTER OF THE SECRET SOUND + LIV. GREYHAWK
Shadar Sentinel- Wiz/Sor18; **
Soulreaver-Rog21; ***
Arcane Lord – Wiz/Sor22;***
Bow Master – Bbn/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng21;**
Perfected one –Mnk21; ***
Stalwart warden – Bbn/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng21;**
Unholy Ravager - Bbn/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng21;**
World Guardian – Rng/Drd21; ***
Master of the Secret Sound – Wiz9/Sor10 or Brd13; **
Knight of the Chase - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 6;**
296 – DRAGON HUNTERS+DRAGON+MONSTER PRC’S+MONK
Dragonscribe – Wiz/Sor10;***
Knight of the Scale - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 6;**
Heartseeker – Brd/Wiz/Sor5 + Ftr1; **
Vengeance sworn – Brb1+Rng 5;**
Dragon Mystic – Dragon; **
Sphere Minion – any5; ***
Illithidkin – Psion/PsiWar5;**
Snake Servant – Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;**
Waker of the Beast - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng7;***
Acolyte of the Fist – Mnk5; **
295 – THE WAY OF THE FIST
Primal Rager – Bbn 8; **
Fierce Grappler - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 6;**
Brawler - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 7;**
294 – SAILOR + CLASS ACTS+FAITHS OF FAERUN
Windsinger – Brd7; **
Nightsong Infiltrator – Rog10; ***
Green Hunter – Rng4; ***
293- NONE
292 – WILDERNESS
Cave Stalker-Dwarf + Rng5; **
Fiend Binder-Orc/half-orc+Drd/Rng5;**
Prairie Runner – Halfling+Rng/Bbn5; *
Darkwood Stalker-Elf/half-elf+Rng/Bbn5;**
291 GNOME GIANT KILLER
Gnome Giant Killer - Brb/Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 5;***
290 GREYHAWK JUSTICAR + FAITHS OF FAERUN
Justicar - Ftr/Sam/Pal/Rng 6;***
Dancer of Sharess – Clr6; ***
289 NINJA
Poison Fist
Ghost-Faced Killer
Weightless Foot
288 CLASS ACTS
Lifedrinker
287 PLANAR + FAITHS OF FAERUN + C.Acts
Athar; *
Cipher
Sensate
Sinker
Taker
Xaositect
Dreadmaster of Bane
Fiend Slayer- Rng4; **
286 SHANARRA+FAERUN
Elder Druid
Nightcloak of Selune
285 HALFLINGS+FAERUN
Lightbearer
Silverstar of Selune
284 DRAGONS
Dragonkith
283 GREYHAWK+C.Acts
Shining Blade of Heironeous
Radiant Servant of Pelor
Fleet Runner of Ehlonna
Mighty Contender of Kord
Flame Steward
282 C.Acts + GREYHAWK
Blessed of Gruumsh
281 PSIONICS
Zerth Cenobite
Arcanopath Monk
Truth Seeker
280 FAERUN+C.Acts
Divine Champion
Eldritch Master; ***

279 Ancestral Avenger Req: elf/half-elf; attack +5, wild lore ranks 3, feat: alertness; feat Iron will; feat tracking. Dragon #279
278Stonelord Drg278. Req.: Base attack +5; craft (stoneworking) ranks: 6; spellcraft ranks: 3; Dwarf; Feats: endurance; language: terran.
277 FAERUN + C.Acts
Rage Mage DRG277. Req.: non-lawful, attack+5, combat casting, Rage, 1st level arcane spellcaster
276 Hunter of the Dead DRG 276. Req.: non-evil, attack +5, knowledge undead 5; must be able to turn undead, must have lost a level or ability point to the draining power of an undead.
275 Duelist DRG275. Req.: +6 attack, perform 3; tumble 5; dodge, weapon proficiency (rapier), ambidexterity, and mobility.
DRGAnnual #5.
Gnome Trickster. Req.: gnome, must be able to cast 1st level arcane-illusion spells, hide 3; pickpockets 5; bluff 7; expertise.
Royal Herald Req.:
DUNGEON # 84 - DROW
Arachnemancer. . Req: evil alignment, knowledge-nature 4 ranks; climb 3 ranks, spellcasting ability of spiderclimb, web and summon monster III, must undergo a scarification ritual.
 

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