Power Attack: Worthless for Monks?

[Elric]

I really don't think that Power Attack is very useful for Monks. Your attack bonus is just so low that unless your damage is terrible (in which case, yes, power attack might be good, but it is only because your character is really bad), the vast majority of opponents will have ACs too high to make power attack worth it.

Cleave has a different problem- your damage/swing and attack bonus are both low compared to a 2-handed wielder type, so getting an extra attack is worth a lot less to you.

 

[jgsugden]

Monks can Power Attack with their unarmed attack. Here's the optimum PA for a level 15 Monk, Str 24, with feats of Weapon Focus & Improved Critical for unarmed attack. I report the average full attack damage/round when said Monk flurries, against a range of AC, listing both the non-PA and optimum PA damage values. Source: click sig.

A couple qualifiers for this type of info: This provides the maximum total damager per round under certain assumptions, not the optimal power attack. The optimal power attack depends upon a lot of other factors (opponent's total hps, presence of whirlwind or cleave feats, vicinity of other enemies, damage potential of enemies (ie; will they kill you if you don't take them down in 1 rd?), etc ...) The goal is not to do the most damage. It is to take down as many enemies as possible before they take you out. Those often involve different strategies.

The table also assumes a full attack as opposed to a single attack, which is not often the case in some games.

These tables, though useful in some situations, are often misleading to players that focus on them. I've seen too many players go for optimal damage versus large numbers of foes with a low AC ... resulting in more misses and less enemies taken down per round than they should have done.

Analyze the situation first before turning to your table. If optimum damage is what you need (ie; fighting 1 foe with a lot of hit points that will not take you out in a short period of time), then the table is wonderful.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Not to mention the FR dwarven feat Hammer Fist that allows an unarmed strike 2-handed

 

[frisbeet]

The table also assumes a full attack as opposed to a single attack, which is not often the case in some games.

Same guy, single attack. Can't be flurrying, by definition. All I did was click a field from the sheet on my site. #s check out however.

AC   Dam  opt PA  Dam
10	14.63	11	26.13
11	14.63	11	26.13
12	14.63	11	26.13
13	14.63	10	25.08
14	14.63	9	24.04
15	14.63	8	22.99
16	14.63	7	21.95
17	14.63	6	20.90
18	14.63	5	19.86
19	14.63	4	18.81
20	14.63	4	17.82
21	14.63	3	16.83
22	14.63	3	15.90
23	14.63	2	14.96
24	13.86	2	14.08
25	13.09	2	13.20
26	12.32	1	12.38
27	11.55	0	11.55
28	10.78	0	10.78
29	10.01	0	10.01
30	9.24	0	9.24
31	8.47	0	8.47
32	7.70	0	7.70
33	6.93	0	6.93
34	6.16	0	6.16
35	5.39	0	5.39
36	4.62	0	4.62
37	3.85	0	3.85
38	3.08	0	3.08
39	2.31	0	2.31
40	1.54	0	1.54
41	0.74	11	1.31

Naturally, you ought to take other combat factors into consideration. But this is a handy table, and it's quick too. Print one off for your character every time you level, that's all you have to do.

What I've found is I am better able to immerse myself in the _role_play of combat when I have to guess the badguy's AC. Makes me think about what the character sees through his eyes, not from some camera angle 20 feet over his left shoulder. Just as you suggest.

Turns out my 75 lb dog is damn near the Tarrasque to my pewter characters.

 

[Beholder Bob]

Not to mention the FR dwarven feat Hammer Fist that allows an unarmed strike 2-handed

Hey - what does that feat do (and the pre-reqs)! I've got a monk who would love to be able to make 2 handed strikes (yep, a power attack monk)

 

[Scharlata]

(yep, a power attack monk)

Ever considered Flying Kick [CW, p. 99] and (Greater) Powerful Charge [both MH, p. 27]?

May be useful if you have PA. You could trade in your charge attack +2 bonus for a -2 PA modifier, at the very least.

3rd level human (Medium) monk, Str 13 (minimum), Power Attack [human feat], Flying Kick [1st level feat], Powerful Charge [3rd level feat], charging 40 feet = total attack bonus +3 and damage 1d6 [unarmed] + 1d8 [PowCh] + 1d12 [FlyK] + 1 [Str] + 2 [PA] = [17.5]

Kind regards