Power-based stories

[Aleolus]

OK, is anyone else as disappointed about the preview we've had about 4th as I was? They seem to have cut out a lot of good story-stuff, as well as stuff that is not massively overpowered, and have brought in a lot of stuff that is way too powerful for core stuff *cough*Dragonborn!*cough, cough*. A friend of mine explained it this way, which seems pretty accurate to me. "Why play a character with a good story behind him and who isn't overpowered when you can play the biggest, baddest guy to ever walk the world, who can take down a Dragon in two swings?" Now, he has a penchant for exaggerating, but he does have a point.
Since then, he has told me that what he calls "power-based storytelling" irritates him to no end. This is where the player decides what powers his character has, then how the world reacts to these powers, rather than describing what the character has been through, and deciding what he would gain from that. I try to find a middle-ground, deciding what he can do, then coming up with why he has these abilities, and seeing how the world around reacts, rather than dictating it. He prefers the character-based storytelling, where you say what the person has been through, and then decide what he would gain from those experiences. This thread is to discuss these topics.

Now, I want to clear up that this thread is NOT for flaming. I will politely request that the Mods discipline anyone who posts on this thread with nothing but an obvious flame. If you don't have anything positive to contribute, or are clearly bashing one point of view or the other, then please, don't post! Thank you

 

[Zelc]

and have brought in a lot of stuff that is way too powerful for core stuff *cough*Dragonborn!*cough, cough*.

And how would you know they're too powerful for core?

Really, I don't see how 4e promotes "power-based storytelling". I don't see anything in the previews that prevents you from doing character-based storytelling. For one thing, powerful characters and character-based storytelling are not mutually exclusive (possible Stormwind Fallacy?). Additionally, a lot of what I do see seems to move away from overpowered characters present in 3e. If you want to see powerful characters, take a look at the current edition. There's a There are at least two level 20 character build that can take down a CR57 epic monster with almost no chance of death, and a very low chance of failure (excluding Pun-Pun of course).

EDIT: Hey, I just realized this isn't the 4E forum. Clicked one category too low?

 

[Nifft]

IMHO it's a high point of D&D as an art form to be able to accomplish both, and it's worth mastering the system specifically so that you can use your system mastery to build PCs whose mechanics serve their flavor.

Cheers, -- N

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

And how would you know they're too powerful for core?

Seriously...I would be remarkably surprised if dragonborn weren't reasonably balanced with the other PHB1 races. If it's the "they can get wings and/or breath weapon" thing, remember that we haven't heard what other races can do with racial feats and abilities at higher levels. If one trusts the development staff (and there's really no reason not to), they'll be roughly equivalent.

I wouldn't be shocked if (for example) dwarves didn't wind up turning to stone and getting amazing DR once/day with feats, or melding into stone, etc.

Brad

 

[Bacris]

I've played characters and played with others who played characters that were both "mechanics-drive-concept" and "concept-drives-mechanics." I've never noticed a corollation with either resulting in a less enjoyable game.

In fact, I've seen a few instances where "concept-drives-mechanics" causes frustration when "the rules just can't do that" comes into play.

The friend in the initial post does tread close to the Stormwind Fallacy, although it sounds more like a deviation of it rather than a direct example.

 

[Doug McCrae]

1. Wrong forum.
2. People have been complaining new material for D&D is overpowered at least since the original Unearthed Arcana in 1985, and probably much earlier.
3. You don't know how powerful dragonborn are as you haven't read the 4e rules.