Power Clerification needed

[Ashodin]

Ok my group is alittle caught off guard by a Warden, and a Swordmage. They both have allot of Immediate Interrupts, and Immediate Reactions, and were alittle unclear on how the exactly work. Or maybe they work differently with each class I"m not sure.

The warden's immediate reactions seem to take place after the full attack happens. So if a marked Target attacks someone other than the warden, the warden gets to make the immediate reaction attack AFTER the target completes it's inital attack.

If the marked target attacks someone other than the warden and the warden uses an immediate interrupt, the attack takes place BEFORE the target finishes it's action? Thus if the wardens attack kills the target, the target never completes it's attack on its target?

Is that accurate?

I'm thinking it works differently for swordmages because they specificly say, "after a target marked by you attacks someone who is not you, you get to do XYZ"

The confusion is the Swordmage thinks the warden's reactions/interrupts should be handled the same has his.

 

[Ashodin]

An example of powers used:

Warden uses Warden's Furry, to attack after a marked enemy attacks and allie, but before the damage is delt, so if the fury kills the target, it's damage is never delt.

Swormage uses: Aegis of assult, they get a -2 to the attack if its not you, and if it hits you get to teleport ot it (within 10 squares), and make a melee basic attack. so there's no way for you to kill the target before it's damage lands.

The way they read it seems pretty self explainatory, but i want a second opinion to qalm the masses.

 

[interwyrm]

and I was so sure this thread was going to be about a certain divine leader class.

 

[Cheesepie]

It's a little unfortunate that the teleporting and making an attack portion of Aegis of Assault was not placed into another power so that it would be more clear, but if it was, it would look like

Assault via Aegis -- Swordmage Feature
At-Will -- Arcane, Teleportation
Immediate Reaction -- Close burst 10
Trigger: An enemy marked by your Aegis of Assault within range hits with an attack that does not include you as a target
Target: The triggering enemy
Effect: You teleport to a square adjacent to the target and make a melee basic attack against it.
Special: If no unoccupied space exists adjacent to the target, you can’t use this immediate reaction.

(Hope that helps at least a little.)

The (assault) swordmage retaliates as an immediate reaction (after the triggering attack lands and deals damage) and only if the attack hits. So does the battlemind. The warden and fighter both retaliate as an immediate INTERRUPT (before the triggering attack lands and deals damage), even if the attack doesn't hit.

EDIT: Good call, DracoSuave. I clarified based on your post.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well...

The Swordmage's Aegii work differently. One is a reaction that teleports you there after the attack is made, the other is an interrupt that blocks the damage.

The Warden's are different because the interrupt attack can only be used in weapon reach, whereas the Swordmage's aegis actually teleports you from a distance. So the Warden has the advantage of primacy, but the Swordmage has the advantage of positioning. Read: Flanking.

 

[Ashodin]

Ok so the confusion really is, that a warden retaliates regardless of whether or not it hits, and even though its a reaction, and not an interruption it still triggers before the actual attack and damage land. Good to know.

So if it shifts the attacker under the circumstance above then the attacker will not be able to land it's attack unless it's still within range.....?

Where as the Swordmage has to wait until after attack and damage is delt.

 

[Ashodin]

Ok after reading this a few more times I have to ask yet again sorry. Are you saying above that only with Wardens and Fighters that a reaction goes before attack and damage? or did you mean to say "Interrupts" there?

From what I was reading here: http://cbpye.net/wp/107 (first comment from Thomas)

A wardens reaction is the same as the sword mages, it takes place after attack and damage, and that the wardens interrupts go before attack and damage.)

 

[Destil]

Interrupts resolve before the triggering action. If the triggering action is no longer valid/possible they can prevent it (kill something before it attacks, move them out of range et cetera).
Reactions resolve after the trigger.

Opportunity actions you can take once per each other character's turn.
Immediate actions you can take once per your turn (but not during your turn).

Opportunity Attacks (anyone): Interrupt, Opportunity. Likewise the fighter's combat superiority is just part of their opportunity attacks, so it goes here too.

Combat Challenge (fighter): Interrupt, Immediate.

Agis of Shielding (swordmage): immediate, Interrupt.

Agis of Assult (swordmage): immediate, Reaction.

Agis of Ensnarement (swordmage): Immediate, Reaction.

Warden's Fury: Immediate, Interrupt.

Warden's Grasp: Immediate, Reaction.

I'm not sure about the speed of divine sanction or divine challenge, it's something that I believe was unspecified last time I looked in-depth.

 

[DracoSuave]

I'm not sure about the speed of divine sanction or divine challenge, it's something that I believe was unspecified last time I looked in-depth.

Non-actions. The divine sanction and challenge punishments are conditionally triggered events, but are not actions in any way.

 

[Destil]

Non-actions. The divine sanction and challenge punishments are conditionally triggered events, but are not actions in any way.

That doesn't tell me if an attack that triggers my divine sanction on a minion ever resolves, though. We know the action, but not the 'speed'. Is it an interrupt or a reaction.