Powerful Master Harper PrC?

ShadowX · Jun 5, 2003

Incantrix is only good for sorcs if you like casting as full round actions. I will admit that the skill reqs are pretty high, but there are ways around them. Also you dont need to be in the PrC for all 10 levels.

BiggusGeekus@Work · Jun 5, 2003

All to become a bard without music who continues wizard spell progression.

In fairness, that means +1hp/level and rather improved reflex saves and BAB. The reflex saves are very nice, the BAB ammounts to a feat since the wizard isn't going to get into combat much (though it's nice for touch attack and ranged touch attack spells). Plus the Master Harper grants the character two feats, the wizard would have two feats but they'd be restricted to metamagic. So the character has a few more options. Then you have all those zany once a day saving throw boosts the Master Harper grants, as well as a couple of special effects.

It's a pretty good trade. Especially when you consider that the "cost" is to be a so-so performer, diplomat, and bluffer. What the wizard is really losing out on is the the you-will-not-resist-my-spells ability that the archmage gets.

DispelAkimbo · Jun 5, 2003

As Voadam mentioned, the class seems very bard focused. It's almost off limits to any pure spellcaster unless they multiclass a good bit. Which in my opinion severely weakens any spell casting class.

So while this class may give quite a bit (two good saves, reasonable skill points, plenty of abilities), I don't think it's majorly imbalanced. There are certainly plenty of more broken classes out there.

I do however have issues with the class as a whole. While the abilities are in theme with the class, and it’s great to see a number of new abilities that are not purely combat based, I dislike the lack of explanation of where these abilities spring from.

They are marked as supernatural, but no explanation or indication is given concerning what causes these new abilities to manifest themselves. Is it Ki? The Weave? Divine?

It almost seems to me that it doesn't matter any more. As long as it’s new and gives bonuses to something, WotC are happy to churn it out, and some people are happy to use it. Don't want to turn this into a rant, but the class does seem lacking depth in explanation for me.

sithramir · Jun 5, 2003

prc

Though aimed at bard class the 12 ranks of perform are easily done with 1 level of multiclass. A bard 1/wizard8 could take this per the errata he'd have to spend 16 skill points of wizard plus the 4 for starting bard. After that I feel its a bit overpowered even if you can't take it til a decent level. If you do you then change your wizards d4 to d6 adding decent BAB plus more powers than the wizard would get. Take 5 levels of this for 2 bonus feats then move into archmage and you have a pretty darn nice character...

BlackMoria · Jun 5, 2003

Would it help to mention that the Harpers is a organization that the primary (as in the most number of members) classes are Bards and Rangers - so Rangers and Bards would be the main incumbents for this class.

As for where the special supernatural come from - it is from the gods as a form of blessing or perk. The Harper organization was founded with the blessing and encouragement of approximately a half dozen gods. A long story that I will not get into but one that most players familar with the Realms would know.

coyote6 · Jun 5, 2003

The names of the ability ought to give a clue as to where they come from -- deities. IIRC, those are the deities favored by the Harpers.

It's not much different from the Harper scout & other Harper prestige classes in various FR books; this is just the Harper harper class.

Arnwyn · Jun 5, 2003

BiggusGeekus@Work said:
The 'approval' bit is bogus. You can't balance power with role-play.

It's not. It's adding (much needed) description to the PrC. Many PrCs in WotC books have a "Special" requirement that is much the same, but has nothing to do with balance.

Originally posted by DispelAkimbo
They are marked as supernatural, but no explanation or indication is given concerning what causes these new abilities to manifest themselves. Is it Ki? The Weave? Divine?

FOR4 Code of the Harpers. As BlackMoria noted, most players familar with the Realms would know.

Edit: Typo.

JacktheRabbit · Jun 5, 2003

DispelAkimbo said:
I do however have issues with the class as a whole. While the abilities are in theme with the class, and it’s great to see a number of new abilities that are not purely combat based, I dislike the lack of explanation of where these abilities spring from.

They are marked as supernatural, but no explanation or indication is given concerning what causes these new abilities to manifest themselves. Is it Ki? The Weave? Divine?

It almost seems to me that it doesn't matter any more. As long as it’s new and gives bonuses to something, WotC are happy to churn it out, and some people are happy to use it. Don't want to turn this into a rant, but the class does seem lacking depth in explanation for me.

What?

Each of those abilities lists the deity that provides the power right in its name. Seems pretty obvious to me how they are gained.

Chun-tzu · Jun 5, 2003

This class is so NOT overpowered.

You're worried that a munchkin will waste their skills and feats to become a Wizard/Master Harper? Not a chance in the world. There's nothing there worth spending ten levels, for a munchkin. It has no powers that significantly add to a Wizard's powers. This one would fall way, way down the list of good Wizard PrCs to take, falling behind just about ANY other spellcasting PrC that has full spell advancement.

This class is a better choice for Bards than the Harper Scout. Why? Because it's ten levels, and it continues the Bard's spellcasting instead of having a separate spell list, like the Scout. That's all that this class is.

Sejs · Jun 5, 2003

*nod* It's aimed directly at bards. Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive 8 not to mention 12 ranks in Knowledge:local and Perform are just a -tad- out of the way for your average wizard, ranger or priest. If you're not a bard (or an expert with a couple multiclass levels of a spellcaster throw in) you're going to be paying for cross-class skills. Or burning feats for Versatile/Cosmopolitan. And the 'must get approval of the High Harpers' bit says you can eaily filter out people who are trying to shoe-horn their way in.

Now, personally I don't like the Harpers as an organization. Not one bit. I think they're campy and lame.

But I don't see any problem with this PrC. There's already been a Harper Priest, Mage, and Scout printed - this is just Harper Bard.