Powergamer Issues

[frankthedm]

What should I do?

Read this...

Five Geek Social Fallacies

Understand and accept you are not the bad guy for sending this annoyance away. Make sure the DM understands you don't want this 'person' around.

 

[prosfilaes]

From the perspective of a DM of 3.x that had everything under the sun in his 12 player group (Trumpet Archon as a template, Succubi as a template, Fairie, Werewolf, other bizarre crap) and had to make a way for it all to work together.

I think that's orthogonal to the issue at hand. It's one thing for people to want a rare chance to play something they might not otherwise get to play. It's quite another to keep pushing for whatever cheesy advantage they can get.

2. Make sure that you advise the group at the same time that the consequences will affect the greater group and for the benefit of having that powerful thing in the group that occasionally the group will have to work together well to get through things.

That would annoy the hell out of me. I'd feel like the DM is punting to me an issue that he should take care of himself. Why did I spend all this time working on a legal character when someone else can be uberpowerful just by asking? If we sat down, and decided that Jim was going to play a dragon and the rest of us were going to play his lackeys, that would be one thing. But someone deciding he couldn't play by the same rules the rest of us were? Don't even ask.

 

[Kobold Boots]

I think that's orthogonal to the issue at hand. It's one thing for people to want a rare chance to play something they might not otherwise get to play. It's quite another to keep pushing for whatever cheesy advantage they can get.

I don't really see a difference as the bottom line is that any non standard race is nothing but a bunch of bonuses that the player will optimize. What you're really on about is your perception of what someone is doing which really has more to do about whether you like them than what they're doing. Impression always happens first. Of course rationalizing helps.-

That would annoy the hell out of me. I'd feel like the DM is punting to me an issue that he should take care of himself. Why did I spend all this time working on a legal character when someone else can be uberpowerful just by asking? If we sat down, and decided that Jim was going to play a dragon and the rest of us were going to play his lackeys, that would be one thing. But someone deciding he couldn't play by the same rules the rest of us were? Don't even ask.

You're welcome to your opinion but there are two kinds of jerks at any table. The munchkin is no doubt one. The inflexible rules lawyer is the other. Both optimize. My role as a DM is to make every effort to offer a team based entertainment experience to everyone at the table and cater to individual needs as is possible with the first goal in mind. (and it's important to take this paragraph in context with my earlier reply and my general inclusive nature for it not to be blown out of proportion).

It does not take away from the team to have a really powerful member that works with it. It will attract attention and all the players need to be ok with that. As to following the rules, the first rule is that the rules of the group are made by the group. The books are guidelines.

Though you do have one excellent point: If players are going to go non-standard with their choices, all players need to be aware of what's possible prior to character generation (if feasible). This is why I like to do character generation in a group setting prior to any of my campaigns.

 

[Chronologist]

To add some more information about the situation, the rest of the party is composed of the following:

Warforged Dragonfire Adept, Lightning type
Aasimar Gunslinger, Pistol style
Elven Wizard, Enchantment specialist
Human Monk, Flaming Fists style
Myself, Aasimar Vitalist (psionic healer from Dreamscarred Press).

The problem player has since changed his character, AGAIN, to a Swashbuckler (from Tome of Secrets (think Fighter with only 5 feats and 7d6 sneak attack). Apparently he plans to use weapons like Nets, but beyond that I have no idea.

I have yet to see the actual build.

The first session is tomorrow. I will allow him to play, under the condition that I review his character beforehand. If he is a good player at the table and his character is in line with the power level of everyone else, then he can continue to play. I myself am frustrated at the level of effort myself and the Dm have had to put into telling this player to play nice.

If he does not play nice, I will not hesitate to ask him to leave.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

So the DM was asking him to use core only rules while the rest of you were not and you, the OP were even using 3rd party material?

Unless he outright doesn't follow / breaks the rules, it is physically impossible for a Fighter/Rogue class to break the game. The only one listed that looks overpowered is the Pistolero, but that's because the gun rules are broken and I'm going to just assume the gunslinger player didn't read too much into said rules, just wanting to play some sort of gun kata'ing hero and not doing it b/c of the "600 dpr pistolero" threads.

 

[Chronologist]

The DM understands that I have good judgment, and my character will be fine in the party. In addition, pistols in our campaign are 1d8 damage, 20/x4 weapons that fire against normal AC, not touch ac, so it's just an exotic crossbow effectively.

The problem player uses dozens of sourcebooks to create characters. His resourcefulness is the source of the problem. By restricting him to the core book, the Dm and I figured he would be forced to play something balanced. At this point, I'm not sure anyone trusts him to use good judgment when it comes to 3rd party sourcebooks and optional rulesets.

 

[prosfilaes]

What you're really on about is your perception of what someone is doing which really has more to do about whether you like them than what they're doing.

I don't see how you're reading that into what I wrote. If someone is abusing the rules so badly the DM has to come to the rest of us and and ask our permission, I don't like it, no matter how much I like them.

 

[Kobold Boots]

I don't see how you're reading that into what I wrote. If someone is abusing the rules so badly the DM has to come to the rest of us and and ask our permission, I don't like it, no matter how much I like them.

So there's really two things that I think we differ on that are present in your reply above.

1. I'm not reading in to what you wrote. I'm giving you some feedback.
2. I simply don't see how rules can be abused if you have an experienced DM.

On point one: What I'm getting at is that most people form an opinion about someone based on the first 30 seconds to 20 minutes of interactions. People will like or dislike someone well before anyone will know their inherent feelings towards powergaming or munchkinism, so if you really have a problem with someone it's not the game, it's the person's attitude.

If someone you like was breaking the rules and it was actively benefiting your gaming experience and he or she was really cool, you probably wouldn't care. That's my experience as a DM and as a player.

2. As a DM I have seen every manner of badly twinked character archetype that I'd care to. Around 2002 I decided to say "f it" and allow whatever people wanted. Most went with core book stuff. Some went with slightly optimized stuff.. and then there ware the Trumpet Archons.

The result of that campaign was that the Trumpet Archons helped the party but were attracting a lot of attention to it. The normals did well for themselves, the optimized did as well and the Archons did their thing when they had to, but it was my job to make sure everyone had their chance to look cool and impress each other.

The bottom line is that if the DM is prepared enough and knows his or her players the game can't be broken. The DM has more power than the rule books and if the players can trust the DM to keep things balanced and fair, then there's no problem.

Last note: One thing I think we agree on though, If I need to ask a player to leave, that's my job as a DM and the rest of the group shouldn't have to be subject to it. I will though, make absolutely sure that my decision is supported by the other members of the group before walking that road.

 

[prosfilaes]

1. I'm not reading in to what you wrote. I'm giving you some feedback.

You're wrong; not only are you wrong, you're arguing with me about what I would do, despite having never met me.

 

[Kobold Boots]

You're wrong; not only are you wrong, you're arguing with me about what I would do, despite having never met me.

Hold up Pros -

I may have a different point of view but I'm not intending to argue with you. Next, I accept that you may act differently than the average person so I mean no disrespect.

However, I am forming the opinion that you've not gotten to the point in your life yet where anything of what I say is going to make any sense to you. I'll stop replying to your posts.

My apologies.
KB