Pramas on 4E and New Gamers

[EATherrian]

I'm going to post this before I read the thread. I think he is dead on. In fact I don't think anything since the BECMI era really was a good blind sell for D&D. I've been playing for many moons and many versions and I'm still having a hard time getting my head around some parts of the new books. For someone completely new who doesn't have the brand loyalty I'm not sure they would even put in the effort.

 

[med stud]

The question of this thread is how they are introduced to them. If it is not for OD&D's legacy how will this happen?
OD&D managed to do it. Can't we manage to do more?

Legacy doesn't matter. D&D is a strong trademark, it's probably the only RPG trademark that is known in the general public, but it's still just a RPG.

A tabletop RPG is a genre of it's own, and as with all genres, it attracts certain people. When the right person is exposed to a RPG, that person will be fascinated. That person will most likely introduce a bunch of friends to it. Then you have a new group of gamers.

That kind of people have a latent need for a TT RPG. You need to expose them to the games. I would say that this is the best time for that exposure since fantasy gaming is now huge. There are tons of fantasy themed computer games, the LotR and Harry Potter- movies have reached a number of people that is unparallelled. Of those who enjoy fantasy, there is most likely a number of people who want to play RPGs.

I think the way to introduce them now is aggressive marketing, which is something the Rouse has spoken about (TV-commercials and stuff). When they have buyed the books, it's their personalities that will decide if they stick to it. Do they like what they see? Then they will learn. D&D 4e isn't complicated per se. It doesn't take intelligence to understand 4e, it takes time, and not a lot of it either. If they don't like what they see, then it doesn't matter. If you have the interest you will take the time and then you will learn.

 

[hong]

Market or economy expands. It means more people are available to buy your product. People being available does not mean that they automatically buy your product. It could be that a trend loses power along the times even if it sells more than before. Which I doubt is even the case -that is selling more than before (even if market has expanded).

It is a very simple proposition. All things being equal, if you produce something that meets what people's wants are, they are more likely to buy it than if you produce something that doesn't.

People want to kill things and take their stuff.

4E supports the killing of things and taking their stuff, and if various whinges are to be taken at face value, it puts this activity front and center.

Therefore, 4E helps to bring people in.

Is that clear enough?

 

[Pbartender]

I've been playing for many moons and many versions and I'm still having a hard time getting my head around some parts of the new books.

Some players in my group are getting over the same problem. We've noticed that it tends to stem from expectations of how things should work based on a previous edition. For example, my wife had a real hard time with the new Cleave, because it's so conceptually different from the way it worked in 3E.

The player in my group who has less experience with D&D is actually picking up 4E rules and tactics rather quickly, since he's starting from a blank slate, and doesn't have to unlearn anything.

 

[xechnao]

Legacy doesn't matter.

I hope it were true but it still seems 4e just sells to its legacy -not to new people.

 

[WayneLigon]

And that's basically what they're releasing in November anyway, isn't it?

That depends on what it's like. The last two attempts at releasing a 'starter D&D' have been abyssmal.

 

[Fenes]

I'd not have bought a starter set, not even as a kid, I'd have wanted the full, grown up game.

 

[Nebulous]

Some players in my group are getting over the same problem. We've noticed that it tends to stem from expectations of how things should work based on a previous edition. For example, my wife had a real hard time with the new Cleave, because it's so conceptually different from the way it worked in 3E.

The player in my group who has less experience with D&D is actually picking up 4E rules and tactics rather quickly, since he's starting from a blank slate, and doesn't have to unlearn anything.

I also think it's missing adequate examples of gameplay, which is something Pramas also mentioned. The DMG is 100 pages shorter than the 3e DMG, and the font is noticeably larger. Plenty of room to put information to clarify stuff for us.

 

[med stud]

I hope it were true but it still seems 4e just sells to its legacy -not to new people.

Oh, you meant it that way. I misunderstood. The already existing players will be the largest part of roleplayers since roleplayers often continue playing for a long time.

What I meant was that RPGs in general provide something that is unique within the world of gaming. It's like a mix between a boardgame and theatre. You pretend to be yourself or someone else interacting with a world that exists in the collective imagination of the players while resolving conflicts with the aid of dice and rules. No other media can provide that. I also think that there are people for whom this media clicks. For these people, the name of the game doesn't matter. In Sweden there is a RPG called Drakar och Demoner. From 1980-1994 it sold 400000 copies in a nation of then 8000000 people. It goes to show that there is a need for RPGs, no matter what RPG it is.

 

[med stud]

Some players in my group are getting over the same problem. We've noticed that it tends to stem from expectations of how things should work based on a previous edition. For example, my wife had a real hard time with the new Cleave, because it's so conceptually different from the way it worked in 3E.

The player in my group who has less experience with D&D is actually picking up 4E rules and tactics rather quickly, since he's starting from a blank slate, and doesn't have to unlearn anything.

I think this is typical. It's harder to unlearn 3e then it is to learn 4e, to put it that way.