Pramas on 4E and New Gamers

[Filcher]

All his points are valid. This doesn't make it a bad game, just not a good game for new players.

 

[billd91]

You have a power called "Feather Me Yon Oaf" written on your character sheet, but there's a question of how it works or interacts with another game element. You desire to look it up. The game is in progress, so you don't want to waste a lot of time on looking it up. What page is it on?

Now suppose you're the DM running from a published adventure and you've got a bunch of NPCs to manage and find their powers easily, some with multiclass characters.
An index of powers would be very helpful to that scenario.

 

[dmccoy1693]

just not a good game for new players.

That's the problem. D&D has more name recognition then every other RPG has combined. If D&D doesn't bring in new gamers, what game will? Hell I know some 20+ year gamers that refuse to play anything but D&D (not out of poor experiences, but because "its not D&D").

D&D fails to attract new gamers, New gamers fail to come to RPGs. This type of scenario is what made Vampire outsell D&D for a time. I wonder what the next Vampire will be because it sounds like that 4E will induce.

 

[Grazzt]

All his points are valid. This doesn't make it a bad game, just not a good game for new players.

Yep. Agreed. I believe this is what Pramas was saying more or less. Good game. Not good for luring new players into the hobby.

 

[Cadfan]

Oh yeah, ANOTHER problem with newb classes instead of newb levels.

Sally: I was looking through the pictures, and I think I'd like to play a Wizard for my first character. They seem cool! I'm really excited about playing one!

DM: Oh, I'm sorry, Sally. Wizards are too hard for you! They'd give you pains in your pretty little head. You should play a fighter.

Sally: But I want to play a wizard. They look interesting. The fighters didn't look interesting to me.

DM: I'm sorry, you have a choice. You can play a wizard and turn out to be useless because you don't know what you're doing, and then have some guy tell you what to do and practically run your character because otherwise you'll suck, and besides he thinks he's being helpful and maybe ingratiating himself to you in hopes of getting a date sometime. Or, you can play a fighter.

Sally: This game is dumb.

 

[AllisterH]

Yep. Agreed. I believe this is what Pramas was saying more or less. Good game. Not good for luring new players into the hobby.

The only question is, "how much more newbie friendly" can you make it without totally losing your current audience?

Notice, many people consider the 1st 2 chapters of the 4E PHB a total waste yet for a new player, I would consider them essential.

 

[Rechan]

Now suppose you're the DM running from a published adventure and you've got a bunch of NPCs to manage and find their powers easily

All of their powers should be on their stat block. Every NPC that wizards has put out has that. So why wouldn't the DM put the NPC's relevant numbers and detail of the power on the statblock, since that's how every monster and NPC has been designed?

 

[dmccoy1693]

Oh yeah, ANOTHER problem with newb classes instead of newb levels.

Sally: I was looking through the pictures, and I think I'd like to play a Wizard for my first character. They seem cool! I'm really excited about playing one!

DM: Oh, I'm sorry, Sally. Wizards are too hard for you! They'd give you pains in your pretty little head. You should play a fighter.

Sally: But I want to play a wizard. They look interesting. The fighters didn't look interesting to me.

DM: I'm sorry, you have a choice. You can play a wizard and turn out to be useless because you don't know what you're doing, and then have some guy tell you what to do and practically run your character because otherwise you'll suck, and besides he thinks he's being helpful and maybe ingratiating himself to you in hopes of getting a date sometime. Or, you can play a fighter.

Sally: This game is dumb.

Or:

DM: Sally, how about a Sorcereress instead. Not as difficult to manage as the wizards while still doing most of the same things.

 

[Storminator]

... huh?

We really must be from different planets.

Same planet, different worlds...

PS

 

[Rechan]

Or:

DM: Sally, how about a Sorcereress instead. Not as difficult to manage as the wizards while still doing most of the same things.

Except, you know, understanding all the odds and ends of spells, which are best, which look good but are duds (shocking grasp; get in a fight, have to roll an attack, for a measely 1d6).

Sally may not know that magic missile is far superior to any other single-target spell. Or how illusions work at all.