[Prc] Roguish Wizard aka my revised version of the Arcane Trickster

[Minaret]

Yennico,

I like the idea of the "Arcane Thief." It seems to have more real-world application than an "Arcane Trickster." IMHO the Arcane Trickster has too much firepower and better Sneak Attack capabilities than a rogue or an assassin.

I also like the fact the your completely walked away from the all the Sneak Attack abilities. It can be hard to let go of the offensive aspects of a PrC.

My favorite class ability is "coolness." The imagery it invokes is great. I see an Arcane Thief working on a lock while his companions are standing over him sweating as a horde of 'baddies" is bearing down on the group.

- Minaret

 

[yennico]

Hello Minaret,

I like the idea of the "Arcane Thief." It seems to have more real-world application than an "Arcane Trickster." IMHO the Arcane Trickster has too much firepower and better Sneak Attack capabilities than a rogue or an assassin.

The Arcane Trickster is one of the PrCs which are IMHO too powerful. I dislike to play charcters whose main focus is fighting.

In one of my two gaming groups I play a Rog/Wiz. He only killed once a person (in fact two intelligent monster). He had to do this and the murder was no evil fact (in deed he saved several lives from NPCs). The following occurences are my ideas how this "murder" affects my PC. The DM agreed with me. The next night after the murder the PC could not sleep because of nightmares. After two days with nightmares which have show scenes from the murder (like looking in the eyes of the dead, etc.) and without any real sleep my PC went to a temple to confess. The next night after the confession and the blessing of the cleric he slept well.

I also like the fact the your completely walked away from the all the Sneak Attack abilities. It can be hard to let go of the offensive aspects of a PrC.

I know.

My favorite class ability is "coolness." The imagery it invokes is great. I see an Arcane Thief working on a lock while his companions are standing over him sweating as a horde of 'baddies" is bearing down on the group.
- Minaret

That is exact the way I like it.

I´m actually working on the Arcane Thief as a Core Class, not as a PrC.

Just my 2 cents
yennico

 

[Andion Isurand]

Note: Many of the PrCs that provide a cool (substantial) class ability at every level, have only ( 2 +int ) skill points per level.

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As for the Instant Metamagic ability proposed by yennico in his lastest modified version... does the work of three epic feats

Auto-Silent Spell... which must be taken three times

once for spells up to 3rd level
twice for spells up to 6rd level
a third time, for spells up to 9rd level

I can clearly see that this ability alone is clearly overpowered.
My red pen would be out in an instant to remove it.

If you want to create a relatively more balanced Silent Spell class ability, check out the following:

the Arcane Devotee PrC (enlarge spell)
the Harper Mage PrC (extend spell)
the War Wizard PrC (widen spell)

In addition, since all these abilities are limited in thier use by the character's charisma score (usable 1 + charisma 'Bonus' times per day), a few more people will consider bringing a rogue/sorcerer into the Arcane Trickster PrC.

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Also, if you want the Arcane Trickster to be allowed to take a 10 on a skill check... use the already existing mechanic of a Special Ability as described in the core Rogue class.

Try offering one or two of these abilities throughout the PrC levels, replacing the bonus metamagic feat you gave the class with one as well. (And remember, you can choose any feat or Improved Evasion as one of your special abilities, in addition to the 10 on skill or one from a couple other things.)

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[yennico]

Hello Andion Isurand,
thanks for your good advice.

Note: Many of the PrCs that provide a cool (substantial) class ability at every level, have only ( 2 +int ) skill points per level.

2+Int is too less skill points for a rogue/ wizard.

As for the Instant Metamagic ability proposed by yennico in his lastest modified version... does the work of three epic feats

Auto-Silent Spell... which must be taken three times

once for spells up to 3rd level
twice for spells up to 6rd level
a third time, for spells up to 9rd level

I can clearly see that this ability alone is clearly overpowered.
My red pen would be out in an instant to remove it.

If you want to create a relatively more balanced Silent Spell class ability, check out the following:

the Arcane Devotee PrC (enlarge spell)
the Harper Mage PrC (extend spell)
the War Wizard PrC (widen spell)

In addition, since all these abilities are limited in thier use by the character's charisma score (usable 1 + charisma 'Bonus' times per day), a few more people will consider bringing a rogue/sorcerer into the Arcane Trickster PrC.

oops. Epic feat. That is true. I will change that.

Also, if you want the Arcane Trickster to be allowed to take a 10 on a skill check... use the already existing mechanic of a Special Ability as described in the core Rogue class.

I will do that.

Try offering one or two of these abilities throughout the PrC levels, replacing the bonus metamagic feat you gave the class with one as well. (And remember, you can choose any feat or Improved Evasion as one of your special abilities, in addition to the 10 on skill or one from a couple other things.)

Improved Evasion Sounds like being blessed by luck
IMHO if I take 2 special abilities (skill mastery and some other instead of coolness and bonus metamagic feat) of the rogue my arcane trickster will be too powerful.

Just my 2 cents
yennico

 

[yennico]

Re: Re: [Prc] Roguish Wizard aka my revised version of the Arcane Trickster

Arcane Thief aka revised Arcane Trickster modified after Andion Isurand´s advice.

Here is my revised version of the Arcane Trickster presented in the WotC book “Tome and Blood”. The original arcane trickster IMHO was too much relying on the sneak attack of the rogue. Ok, the sneak attack is much lower than that of a rogue but the PrC looked to me more like a kind of arcane assassin than a thief / cat burglar.

I left out the description and the parts I left unchanged.

Description: left out because it will be nearly the same as in Tome and Blood.

Requirements:
Alignment: any non lawful
Decipher Script: 7 ranks
Disable Device: 7 ranks
Escape Artist: 7 ranks
Knowledge (Arcana): 9 ranks
Race: All
Feats: Silent Spell
Spells: Ability to cast mage hand and at least on spell of 3rd level or higher.

Hit Dice, Class Skills and Skill Points are unchanged

Class Feature:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: no additional proficiencies

The bab , saves and spell progression are the same as the Arcane Trickster, I only changed the special abilities.

Level 1: Ranged Legerdemain 1x/day
Level 2: Any Skill Focus
Level 3: Uncanny dodge (+1 vs. traps)
Level 4: Bonus Metamagic Feat
Level 5:
Level 6: Silent Spell: An Arcane Thief can cast spells if they were under the effect of the silent spell feat. He does not need to prepare this in advance and it does not increases the casting time or uses a higher spell slot. The Arcane Thief can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1 + her charisma bonus (if any, minimum once/day)
Level 7: Uncanny dodge (+2 vs. traps)
Level 8: Ranged Ledgermain 3/day
Level 9: The Arcane Thief gets the special ability: Pass without trace permanent. His walks are covered like he has a permanent Pass without trace spell on himself.
Level 10: Skill Mastery: Same as the ability of the rogue

Spells: Gaining a new level the Arcane Thief with Wizard as spellcasting class gains only the arcane knowledge of one new spell instead of the normal two for free. Arcane Thieves with Sorcerer as spellcasting class gain new spells (known and cast) per level normally.

Just my 2 cents
yennico

 

[yennico]

Arcane Thief as Core Class

Here is my Arcane Thief as core class.

Just my 2 cents
yennico