[PrC] The Deadeye

[Shadeus]

Let me put in my $.02.

1. The "speciality" of this prestige class isn't clear. Yeah, the bow. But how? Is it intended to be a long range marksmen or a close-quarters archer?

2. I think the prereqs are pretty weak. A ranger character focusing on the bow would have those feats and skills anyway. They aren't giving up much to go this route. A PHB ranger would qualify at level 6, Monte's ranger at level 5. You may consider having the sneak attack ability as a pre-req. Or maybe dodge/mobility if you are focusing on close quarters combat. Maybe Tumble to avoid those pesky AoOs.

3. Why do they have good Will saves?

4. I would reduce the frequency of the sneak attack damage to perhaps 1, 4, 7, 10 levels. At least make it somewhat different that the OotBI.

5. Keen arrows, magic weapon, true strike, and Banked shot don't fit very well if this is intended to be a close-quarters archer.

6. Consider adding a special ability extending the point blank shot range to 45' (including sneak attack damage). Maybe around level 5.

7. Ranged disarm is a very good idea.

8. Legendary shot is a cool idea.

9. Death attack, that seems to work too. I good way to round out the class.

 

[Mordane76]

Well, first off why does a class dedicated to sniping have an ability that lets them function better in close combat? Wouldn't it make more sense to give them an ability to move locations quickly to prevent them from being engaged in HTH.

Similarly, why is a sniper class built around a skill like sneak attacks when it forces them to get up close, which is generally the antithesis of sniping. Where the objective is to stay away from your target. I think the improved crit range/mulitplier + extended range on a DWS makes for a better one shot, one kill mechanisim. Perhaps you could give the class the ability to use "Hunter's Mercy" a spell that iirc guarentees a crit threat. I can't recall where it's from, maybe MotW?

Finally the combination of death shot with the banked shot ability makes me a bit uneasy, since it essentially guarentees that you can get it most of the time.

Basically, it seems to be a slightly enhanced version of OoBI, which seems unnecessary. If a player wants some of the abilities, just have him take levels in OoBI and DWS. Prestige class and Archer haters aside, there aren't any balance problems until perhaps you are maxing out both classes and then everyone is so obscenely powerful I don't think it matters much.

I don't think this class is necessarily a sniper -- I see it as more like a Ghostwalker-style angst, with a cold, calculated killer thing going on. Think more like a dark commando...

 

[Rackhir]

I don't think this class is necessarily a sniper -- I see it as more like a Ghostwalker-style angst, with a cold, calculated killer thing going on. Think more like a dark commando...

Well I would still drop the Close Combat shot, death shot, magic weapon and the keen arrows. If you want it to be a commando/ghostwalker style character. I would concentrate more on sneaking and hiding stuff.

Steal "Hide-in-Plain-Sight" and "Shadowjump" from the shadowdancer PrC. I would probably also try to add in something like the ability to create a darkness/deeper darkness and some kind of blind sight. Finally, I would make the legendary shot useable several times per day increasing as the level goes up

1x 1st lv
2x 3rd lv
etc...

HiPS & Blindsight 30' at Second Lv
40' Shadowjump at 4th, perhaps increasing 10' for each additional lv.
Darkness 2/day at 6th (DE level as caster) & Blindsight 60'
DeeperDarkness 2/day at 10th (DE level as caster)

I can't remember what levels the shadow dancers abilities kick in at, so they might need to be modified depending on where they kick in at in the SD progression.

Just to make it different you might want to make the class require a short composite bow. Let's face it Long Composite Bows aren't exactly the most subtle and easily hidden of weapons.

Then you would have something that isn't simply a slightly modified OoBI.

 

[clark411]

Bab of a fighter, sneak attack damage (ranged even) that progresses like a rogue's, 8 special class abilities, and good will / reflex saves, and a d8 hit die.

Over powered. I cannot see any reason, beyond feats that I'd already want to take if i were going archer, to not take this class.

 

[Rackhir]

Bab of a fighter, sneak attack damage (ranged even) that progresses like a rogue's, 8 special class abilities, and good will / reflex saves, and a d8 hit die.

Over powered. I cannot see any reason, beyond feats that I'd already want to take if i were going archer, to not take this class.

Well OoBI (which you may already regard as overpowered) has figher BAB, D10 hp, good will/reflex and the same sneak attack damage, plus a similar number of special abilites. But the class could stand a bit of pruning with regards to the abilities.

One thing though. All sneak attacks function at range, no matter what class they are from. Rogues simply don't tend to use ranged weapons that often for sneak attacks since it is very difficult to arrange situations, especially in combat where the opponent is flanked by someone with a missile weapon. Since missile weapons do not threaten an area.

That pretty much limits ranged sneak attacks to situations where you are able to flat foot an opponent. I ran an OoBI character for about a year (after qualifying) I don't think I got to use the sneak attack damage more than 2-3 times and the DM was more generous in his interpretation of the flanking rules than the DMG.

 

[Mordane76]

HiPS & Blindsight 30' at Second Lv
40' Shadowjump at 4th, perhaps increasing 10' for each additional lv.
Darkness 2/day at 6th (DE level as caster) & Blindsight 60'
DeeperDarkness 2/day at 10th (DE level as caster)

You know... I don't know why everyone is so willing to immediately throw in darkness spell-like abilties and the shadowdancer abilities -- this isn't a friggin' ninja! We have enough friggin' ninjas! One more ninja and we'll have a clan of them right here!

Over powered. I cannot see any reason, beyond feats that I'd already want to take if i were going archer, to not take this class.

Because, not everyone is out to twink themselves out for the purpose of dealing damage or for the sheer joy of killing. I think the situational modifiers and DM control of this class could make it a VERY good PrC, akin to the Ghostwalker.

Berate me all you want, but balance can be maintained in a campaign even in the face of some questionable PrC if DM control is maintained on how they are accessed. Sure -- if this class is open to anyone with a pulse, then it's broken. Add on some special requirements, a good backstory and a solid, small group of Deadeyes, and you've got a kick-*** PrC.

The abilities aren't as outlandish as those of the DWS. Sure, they get Banked Shot and Death Attack -- at no less than 13th and 15th character level, respectively. An evil character could have Death Attack from like 6-7th character level as an Assassin. Also, most of the abilities (Legendary Shot, Magic Weapon, and True Strike) are usuable once per day, with no advancement in their availability (unless you extend this PrC into epic levels). Banked Shot requires a full-round action, limiting someone to one arrow a round using it. Even wrapping it with Death Attack means you'll get one arrow every three rounds, which is a dead archer in a standard combat. I just don't see what the big deal is here.

 

[Cyraneth]

Just a tiny nitpick, but still an all too common redundance: Proficiency in bows is listed as a requirement, even though Weapon Focus is a requirement too. Weapon Focus requires proficiency...

Just my two pence...

- Cyraneth

 

[Chacal]

Il like the class, but don't think it should have good Will saves, given that neither prerequisites nor abilities suggest it.
One think I dislike in PrC specialized with a weapon, is when
they have full bab progression. Having only medium BAB progression, except with bows shouldn't be too much bookkeeping and could balance it with fighter types not that specialised in bows.

Chacal

 

[mmu1]

Massively overpowered. (the fact that there are PrC's even more overpowered defnitely doesn't make it ok).

The feat requirements are simply feats any archer is going to take anyway, the Skill requirements can be filled with a single level of rogue or ranger, the skill points and skill list are much too good for a class with this many special abilities and a fighter BAB, and the two good saves are also too much - especially since the good Will save is unjustified by the character concept.

Not to mention that most of the abilities are ones that just make this guy a better killing machine, this is not some guy specialized in making interesting or trick shots by any stretch of imagination.

 

[Mordane76]

Not to mention that most of the abilities are ones that just make this guy a better killing machine, this is not some guy specialized in making interesting or trick shots by any stretch of imagination.

I want to respond to this in a nasty way, but that would be childish of me. This is not the forum to beat the dead horse of role-playing versus roll-playing, nor is is a battleground for a fight to harden the definition of powergaming versus twinking out. This is a PrC.


For those of you who've put out alternatives, I commend you; while you may not agree or like his class, you're willing to put forth some thought on what you'd change. For those of you who've just said, "Aww, shucks, this is too powerful, and hence it must be bad," I say BOO. If you don't like it, make a suggestion -- don't just crap on the guy's idea.


Rackhir: I'm sorry for busting your chops. I just don't think the ninja style is a good way to do this. Think more like a archer-meets highwayman-meets ghostwalker, not stealthy. I'm trying to think of a good fictional parallel, but I can't come up with one right now. Maybe more like the comic-book archer Hawkeye if he shot to kill and had a generally dark outlook.


Chacal: You might have something there with the good Will Save and the breaking down of ranged BAB. I think I'd shy away from it, though, because of the extra book-keeping necessary. While it might not be alot of extra book-keeping, it's still something extra, which can slow down combat and make to-hit calculation one step messier.


mmu1: I agree that DWS is a little extreme. But Assassin is fairly balanced PrC. Are you saying you think it's broken as well?