PrCs - which ones are (a bit) over the edge?

[Remathilis]

When you compare what that eldrich knight COULD have done with a seventh level spell slot, it seems a bit weak imho.

Summon Monster VII: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. (bone devil, babu demon, invisible stalker, djinni?)
Delayed Blast Fireball: 1d6/level fire damage; you can postpone blast for 5 rounds.
Mage’s Sword F: Floating magic blade strikes opponents.
Prismatic Spray: Rays hit subjects with variety of effects.
Finger of Death: Kills one subject.

Almost seems like a waste of a spell-slot...

Back to the topic: I always thought Mage of the Arcane Order was a bit powerful for a generalist wizard...

 

[Shazman]

I would have to say that frenzied berserker and radiant servant of pelor are pretty broken. Some of the classes and PrC's in Tome of Battle are pretty strong, but not broken. Some things I've heard about in Complete Mage seema bit too powerful. I've alos hear that Planar Shepherd from Faiths of Eberron is pretty broken. As someone said earlier, the real problem is dipping into a lot of classes and PrC's combined with certain spells, feats, and magic items to come up with over the top killer combos.

 

[Nyeshet]

PrCs are a quite nice way to add some special stuff to a PC.

Some are nice, balanced, and offer good opportunities for role playing.

Others are a DM's headache, and offer different ways for roll-playing...

My question: What PrC do you consider broken, too good to ignore, or being a candidate for corrections? A friend and I try to correct some overpowered PrC for a homebrewed version of D&D. We're using the 3.5 rules plus the standard splat books (Complete X,Y,Z...) as well as the FRCS and PGtF.

Thanks for your comments!

Any PrC that specializes will be "a bit over the edge" in the area of its specialization and underpowered in most other areas. Or, at least, that is how it is supposed to be. An undead hunter, for instance, should slay undead with almost disgusting ease compared to core classes and other PrCs, but it should be no better than a (not optimized) rogue or fighter in most other situations - if not even a bit weaker than that.

The "patch" PrC (that allows for successful mixing of two classes, such as the Eldritch Knight or the Mystic Theurge), on the other hand, should be a generalist whose power is about equal or slightly higher than the weaker of the two classes being mixed. An Eldritch Knight is weaker than a pure caster, but somewhat stronger than the pure combative mixed with the caster. A Mystic Theurge (at 10th level of MT) is weaker than a pure cleric or druid but is about equal to or slightly stronger than the wizard or sorcerer used for the arcane part of its heritage.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Really? How so? What level spell is he sacrificing? How much damage could he do with a spell of that level? Would he have to be in melee range? Or did you mean in conjunction with Wraithstrike (because then the real problem would be Wraithstrike)?

I agree with this, with Wraithstrike/Power attack/Arcane Strike the power goes off the charts, just arcane strike gives +9 to hit and +9d4 damage if you have 9th level spells for each of upto 4 attacks. This is with standard, not touch attacks If you have Meteor Swarm, you can to 2d6 physical with touch attacks and 6d6 explosion and do this upto the 4 spheres that are produced. That's 8d6 physical +24d6 AoE. Arcane strike is not overwhelming if you compare it to spells of that level.

 

[wildstarsreach]

My DM won't allow Abjurant Champion.

He and one of the other players are the only ones who I have seen complain about it however.

If they didn't allow full spell caster progression, this PrC wouldn't be such a good buy. If I'm playing a gish now, I will want the 5 levels that this class give since it has full BA of +5, full caster progression and several additional benefits to abjuration spell. It's too good a deal.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

If they didn't allow full spell caster progression, this PrC wouldn't be such a good buy. If I'm playing a gish now, I will want the 5 levels that this class give since it has full BA of +5, full caster progression and several additional benefits to abjuration spell. It's too good a deal.

Agreed, Abjurant champion is just plain too good. BAB +5, caster +5 D10 hit points, decent saves, and very very nice abilities, including endless quickened abjurations of 3rd level and lower. (Well, till you run out of slots, which could be a long while.) A Warrior casting dispels, Protetion arrows, Resist energy and shield, (of course) is pretty good. Go into Spell Compendium and it gets even better.

Radient servent I still see as balanced, as I believe a cleric should have something else but spell and and turn undead, and all the radient servent's abilities can be easily obtained with feats. Or are not worth getting anyway

Maximizing and empowering heal spells is just not hard at all, destroying instead of turning is a feat you can get at first level, and who cares about radience?

 

[Felon]

Arcane strike is not overwhelming if you compare it to spells of that level.

And if you drop wraithstrike from the equation, which is the real culprit here.

I really wish I could say it would be fixed by bumping its level to 3rd or 4th, but I don't even know if that's the case.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

And if you drop wraithstrike from the equation, which is the real culprit here.

I really wish I could say it would be fixed by bumping its level to 3rd or 4th, but I don't even know if that's the case.

Wraithstrike is bad at any level. To fix it I would say next attack, and set it at 3rd level. Better jsut to drop it entirely. It is easy to remove it and fix all the problems associated with it.

 

[Wraith-Hunter]

If they didn't allow full spell caster progression, this PrC wouldn't be such a good buy. If I'm playing a gish now, I will want the 5 levels that this class give since it has full BA of +5, full caster progression and several additional benefits to abjuration spell. It's too good a deal.

There is a thread over on WotC boards about the AC

Long and the short of it, its fine
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=806250

It is only a 5 level class, for a gish you have to take other levels in another PrC. (Many games just don't allow multiple PrC's).

On paper it looks better than it is. It is best for a fighter who dabbles in magic, near useless for a straight caster, good for some gish builds but not all.

Generally people that have a problem with it don't really get into it. It looks worse than it is. A core only druid/cleric will wipe the floor with any gish build with or without the AC.

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The 2 most powerfull classes in the game are the Cleric and the Druid.

Any PrC that add to their power is broken because the base class is broken.

 

[Wraith-Hunter]

Wraithstrike is bad at any level. To fix it I would say next attack, and set it at 3rd level. Better jsut to drop it entirely. It is easy to remove it and fix all the problems associated with it.

We use it as your NEXT (single) attack not 1 round. Has to be used within 1 round, and keep it at 2nd. It plays fine that way. @ 3rd there is a dragonomicon spell that does something similar, 1 attack per round is touch lasts 1 rd per level.

Judging a PrC by a spell is not the best way to go about balancing anything