Preorder, cancel, preorder, cancel etc

[Darkthorne]

Fitz,
For what it's worth I do NOT buy from Amazon. I have a local gaming store which I game at, from my pov it's about loyalty. He's providing me a place to game at and if me and my friends don't buy, he won't be there for me to game at.

 

[Staffan]

Add a premium to the cost of the books I buy from the store (ostensibly from GST, shipping and the exchange rate... though it's funny how the exchange rate going down never makes the books cheaper...) it's just not good sense to buy from the store.

Speaking of exchange rates, I find it amazing that they apparently have no effect on the pricing in the local stores.

I remember going to the then relatively new local store in Växjö about ten years ago, when the exchange rate was about $1 = 8 kr, and books were subject to the standard 25% sales tax. At the time, I would be paying 200 kr for a $20 book - which I figured was a fair price.

I've moved since then, but when I moved the prices in the old local store and the new local store seemed pretty much equal. Nowadays, the exchange rate is more like $1 = 6 kr, and the sales tax on books has been dropped to 6%. You'd think that the cost of a $30 book ought to be something like 190-200 kr. Instead, they charge 335 kr for them.

I don't know if it's the Swedish distributor or if it's the stores themselves, but someone is making a ton of money off the exchange rate.

 

[Blacksmithking]

I think that after 5.5 editions of D&D, I can't deal with another bout of love / hate/ houserule with a new triad of rulebooks.

I preordered from B&N using a "new member" coupon to bring the price down to $54.00.

How bad can the books be that you won't get $54 of value out of them?

 

[JohnRTroy]

Keep in mind that, even if a local FLGS owner bought from Amazon, assuming they could get 100 copies or something without raising red flags--the fact is the store will get it later than Amazon will.

And from what I've seen on this message board, there is an incredible lack of patience among fans. Everybody wants to see it now, some even wish pirated copies were available solely so they wouldn't have to wait to see the rules, etc. Any store getting it even a DAY late will be hurt.

Patience seems to be lacking nowadays when it comes to new products. That's why we have mass release dates, so all the outlets will (supposedly) be on equal footing.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wow, that's a pretty condescending post. For the record, I've owned my store for 15 years so I must be doing something right. I'm well aware of the service I provide. I'm simply pointing out that it's what one might call a "bit" unfair to have online stores SELLING the books to customers for LESS than what us stores PAY from our distributors.

I am in no way condemning the CUSTOMER who pre-orders online, it's a good deal. The system is a bit flawed, though.

What system is that? Capitalism?

You've been running your store for 15 years, and you're still complaining about FAIR?

Capitalism isn't about being fair, it's about being competitive. You can't compete on price.

Running a game store is like running a boutique. You're not expected to have the lowest price.

I congratulate you on figuring something else out, it's just amazing to me that you'd still be complaining about this after dealing with it for the entire 15 years of your existence.

The main thing I see physical retailers fail on is having things in stock. If I come into your store looking for something I want to purchase immediately and you tell me I have to wait for you to order it, then you've just lost my business to an online retailer that you've proven can match you in the only area in which you had an advantage.

It's exactly that. I prefer to buy from my local store. I enjoy browsing the actual product. I like mingling with fellow gamers. And to be a hobby gamer is to be an impulse buyer. So my inclination is to go into the game store, whether in search of something specific, or because I want to buy something, anything, right now.

If the game store doesn't have what I need they should have something else I want. Miniatures, cards, novelty dice, something.

 

[jaelis]

Capitalism isn't about being fair, it's about being competitive. You can't compete on price.

It's reasonable to complain if the publisher is selling the books to one distributor at a lower price than to another. That's (part of) the point of things like anti-trust laws... you aren't supposed to arbitrarily favor some customers over others. And you aren't supposed to sell products at a loss to drive your competitors out of business.

Given the overhead of running a physical shop, it's a good bet that things will always be cheaper on line. But if the online price is below the dealer's own price, then I agree it sounds a bit fishy.

 

[N0Man]

I pre-ordered from Amazon myself, but cancelled for 2 reasons:

1) I couldn't get a Player's handbook in time for the Game Day. Brick & Mortar shops should be thanking Wizards for having Game Day, because it seems impossible for Amazon to get you the books by then.

2) Amazon.com never supplied me with a place to game.

Sometimes it hurts the wallet, but if you want local businesses to exist, you have to sometimes make small sacrifices for them. Many of them are making them for us, afterall.

 

[SSquirrel]

I have a pre-order w/amazon and I think I may buy a PHB from one of our local stores for my wife. I don't understand the people who are ordering and cxling multiple times. If you have a pre-order, may as well leave it up till much closer to release and decide then

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Given the overhead of running a physical shop, it's a good bet that things will always be cheaper on line. But if the online price is below the dealer's own price, then I agree it sounds a bit fishy.

It's not fishy, it's normal. It's a product of the "3-Tier" distribution system: publisher, distributor, retailer.

WotC is not set up to sell 5 books to Fitz's Game Emporium. That is not an account that they have any interest in servicing. And WotC is entitled to offer whatever discount they want for purchases of a certain size. If they offer the discount, and you can meet the sales figures they want, you get the discount. There's no favoritism. They have tens of thousands of books they need to sell.

So they are happy to sell 1000 books at a time to Amazon. Amazon gets their books at the wholesale price. They sell them for a very small profit and make their money in quantity. There is nobody down-tier from Amazon. They are distributor and retailer, and YOU, the customer, benefit from that-- assuming all you are interested in is price.

If Fitz wants to sell WotC books, he has to buy them from someone who can buy in quantities that WotC is interested in dealing with.

That's the distributor-- Alliance, Diamond, Impressions, etc.

The distributor sells 5 books each to 200 game stores the size of Fitz. Their business model is acting as a "bulk buying agent" to small game stores. They can place an order of hundreds of books.

The distributor, however, is entitled to his own profit. He bought his books from WotC at (or very near) the same wholesale discount that Amazon received, and then he resells them to Fitz for another 5-10% of the cover price.

And then Fitz marks the books up again to cover his profit, and sells them to you, the gamer. When all is said and done, Fitz probably gets his books from the distributor for about 40% off the cover price.

When you buy a book in game store, the price you pay is covering profits for Fitz, for Fitz' distributor, and for WotC.

Fitz knows this, of course-- or at least he should after being in business for 15 years.

It's eminently fair to Fitz, to the distributors, and to WotC, and at the end of the day the power is right where it should be: in the hands of the customer.

You'll decide where to spend your money. The companies who best serve your interests will succeed.

 

[Pickles JG]

It's eminently fair to Fitz, to the distributors, and to WotC, and at the end of the day the power is right where it should be: in the hands of the customer.

You'll decide where to spend your money. The companies who best serve your interests will succeed.

The trouble is that people cannot always recognise their interests (in a way I hope is nto patronising). B&M game stores have to provide other features as well as product - the option to peek at books, insight from the staff & space to play. This last is the most important really - if there is no gaming community then noone will want the products, no matter what price, as they cannot play with them. I am not sure how much of this effects D&D as I do not know how much D&D is plyed in stores - I have always played at home. It does effect some miniatures games & card games that I play.

On the other hand electronic games shops provide me with no value - peeking & playing are not issues & the staff are invariably imbecilic so I always shop online - I do not care if the highstreet games shops go out of business & I doubt very much it would hurt anyone other than them if they did.