Pretending to be a Paladin

[Castellan]

It perpetuates the steroetype that all paladins must be Dudley Do-Rights, and go around waving their Paladin-ness in so many people's faces, that the world actually views them as a Class, and not as just individuals.

I've seen this character concept in action before, and the person who played it distinctly believed that Paladins were a cliche, and played it to the hilt.

I understand your concern, but is this not the purpose of a con-man? To take advantage of stereotypes?

From my point of view, I don't think I can do everything a paladin could do, and therefore, it will require me to come up with a "code of honor" and and explanation of why things are as they are for me.

I can't have a special mount (all bluffing aside) -- I certainly can't call on it to appear next to me per the paladin rules. Why? Perhaps it's not a part of my "faith," or maybe I feel that it is a sacrifice I've "chosen" to make to impart humility on myself?

I think a true flim-flam artist will start with stereotypes and work backward to the features he can successfully mimic. He'll have to come up with some pretty compelling reasons why he doesn't have some of those stereotypical features. But, then you've created a "paladin" who may seem even more real, since he's more unique.

If the d20 rules have taught us anything, it's that there exists a plethora of options for your characters, and (even just sticking to WotC stuff) creating a variant of the class is natural. I'm looking for a way to incorporate the vast array of skills, feats, and class abilities to approximate someone of honor so that I can lie, cheat, and steal my way through life.

Besides, who's to say that this character wouldn't go on a tirade whenever anyone asks, "What do you mean you can't Lay on Hands?"

The fact is, in medieval times, the average person probably assigned a generic set of attributes to knights. It was up to the individual to confirm or deny the preconceptions of those people.

I'm loving the ideas. Please, give me more!

 

[drothgery]

I can't have a special mount (all bluffing aside) -- I certainly can't call on it to appear next to me per the paladin rules. Why? Perhaps it's not a part of my "faith," or maybe I feel that it is a sacrifice I've "chosen" to make to impart humility on myself?

"I am as yet too new in my service of $DEITY to have earned a special mount." (your fake backstory -- maybe partially true -- is that you were a street orphan taken in by kindly priests/paladins of $DEITY)

You'll probably want to work out why you're pulling the "paladin" scam; the skills you'll need to pull it off would make you quite adept in some other roles that are probably easier to exploit for money and the attention of attractive members of the opposite sex (which is, of course, what your character is in it for).

It's also worth noting that at some point, the DM (if he thinks anything like me) is eventually going to put you in a situation where you'll have to cut and run, admit to not being a "real" paladin, or face something that would be extremely dangerous for a non-paladin (and probably just dangerous for a paladin).

 

[Castellan]

It's also worth noting that at some point, the DM (if he thinks anything like me) is eventually going to put you in a situation where you'll have to cut and run, admit to not being a "real" paladin, or face something that would be extremely dangerous for a non-paladin (and probably just dangerous for a paladin).

I certainly hope so! Part of the fun of this character will be trying to come up with reasonable explanations on the spot. It'll probably be hard at times, but that's all part of the challenge.

I think it could also be fun for him to fail in his deception. It provides interesting role-play opportunities with the members of his party, but also provides interesting role-play opportunities outside of the party, too.

Imagine how much fun it could be if we really, really needed to get into the Duke's estate to find out what's going on. Everybody in the group knows I'm not really a paladin, but they all play it to the hilt, too, in an effort to accomplish the goal.

The character looks like a wealth of role-playing possibilities, and a potential source of all kinds of side-quests, or plot twists!

 

[Darren]

Rogue/Cleric of a god of trickery, then perhaps Rich Burlew's Divine Trickster for PrC, or Bard/Cleric and Divine Prankster from Races of Stone.

 

[reapersaurus]

umm.. you're not getting my critique of this character concept.

To fake or imitate a CLASS, you have to meta-game things.
You have to assume that the world knows about D&D classes, and the abilities and skills that come with it.
This requires a suspension of disbelief that I am not comfortable with.

While we, as players, have read the book and understand the mechanics of class levels and abilities, I wouldn't feel comfortable gaming in a world where the common villager asks an outwardly noble and pious adventurer, "Why don't you just Lay Hands on that guy?"

This whole approach of bluffing abilities precludes that you don't get what's wrong about faking being a paladin based on the abilities they traditionally have.

Further, IMO many players and DM's treat classes as just numbers on paper - they treat their characters as an amalgamation of abilities they can do.
I sincerely doubt that a village that was being lorded over by an evil creature or organization would question what class the adventurer(s) were that saved them.
That noble LG fighter that follows Heironeous would be just as celebrated as a LG Paladin who freed them. Just like a LG rouge (yeah, right ) would be celebrated, regardless of what set of powers he used while risking his life for the villagers.

BTW: I don't believe you can 'fake' being LG to people for a long period of time. You either are, or you aren't. Your alignment is based on your actions. If you consistently do good, and act like a paladin, than you ARE becoming closer to LG. It's not like a mantle you put on for an act. Alignment reflects your inner being.
And when people meet you, talk to you, etc they get a sense of what kind of person you are over a long period of time.

I've just never been a fan of a world where a group of adventurers walks into town, and the local populace falls on their knees, revering and extolling praise on the party "paladin."
A true paladin only gets respect from people he encounters by:
a) the actions that he has done for the people he encounters
or
b) the respect he is afforded based on some (usually) religious order that is known to the people he encounters. This order certainly would know whether this rogue is "faking it". Further, I'm sure they'd be quite upset if a rogue was faking being one of their organization, if he wasn't.

Any questions, I'd be glad to clarify any of these points.

 

[Kyrail]

Yes but wont your manner of combat be extremely unpaladinly? Sneak attacks? Even if you're not *sneaking* its a very odd manner for a paladin to fight in.

 

[drothgery]

To fake or imitate a CLASS, you have to meta-game things.
You have to assume that the world knows about D&D classes, and the abilities and skills that come with it.
This requires a suspension of disbelief that I am not comfortable with.

While we, as players, have read the book and understand the mechanics of class levels and abilities, I wouldn't feel comfortable gaming in a world where the common villager asks an outwardly noble and pious adventurer, "Why don't you just Lay Hands on that guy?"

It works both ways, though. According to the D&D-world commoner, things work exactly how the Player's Handbook says that they do. So while he doesn't know the specifics, the commoner certainly knows that the Knights of $DEITY (who are all paladins in game-mechanics terms) can heal, have magical steeds, are champions of $DEITY's vision of Lawful Goodness and are afraid of nothing.

 

[shilsen]

umm.. you're not getting my critique of this character concept.

To fake or imitate a CLASS, you have to meta-game things.
You have to assume that the world knows about D&D classes, and the abilities and skills that come with it.
This requires a suspension of disbelief that I am not comfortable with.

Matter of perspective. In a standard D&D campaign (i.e. using the rules mostly as written, in a somewhat generic setting such as FR or Greyhawk), I would have to seriously suspend my disbelief to to assume that the world does not know about classes and the abilities that come with it.

In Greyhawk, for example, paladins have purportedly existed for thousands of years. All of them can can detect evil and smite evil, most (2nd lvl and higher) can lay on hands, many (3rd lvl and higher) are immune to disease, and some can turn undead and cast spells (4th+), summon special mounts (5th+) and remove disease (6th+). And nobody in these thousands of years has noticed these similarities or classified those who have them in some way? Yeah, right! Maybe Joe Commoner doesn't have precise details, but he's probably heard from someone about how holy warriors can heal the sick. And some more knowledgeable members of society (which will include many adventurers) will have very precise ideas about a paladin's capabilities.

 

[Castellan]

To fake or imitate a CLASS, you have to meta-game things. You have to assume that the world knows about D&D classes, and the abilities and skills that come with it. This requires a suspension of disbelief that I am not comfortable with.

While we, as players, have read the book and understand the mechanics of class levels and abilities, I wouldn't feel comfortable gaming in a world where the common villager asks an outwardly noble and pious adventurer, "Why don't you just Lay Hands on that guy?"

But, why wouldn't a villager ask that? Okay, he might not call it "Laying on Hands," but certainly someone claiming to be a Holy Warrior is going to be viewed as a form of divine influence. In a world where miraculous healing is commonplace -- or at least likely to be a frequent addition to news -- why would someone not expect healing of some kind? Only in the most rural areas could someone bilk the common people and get out of town before the truth is known. Someone providing legitimate healing for personal gain (i.e. cold, hard cash) would be more believable.

This whole approach of bluffing abilities precludes that you don't get what's wrong about faking being a paladin based on the abilities they traditionally have.

I agree with you, here. I don't get what's wrong. Internet phishing scams operate on the principle that -- at least for the more sophisticated ones -- you go to a web site and have access to certain features (i.e. your abilities mentioned above) and are tricked into believing the experience is a legitimate one. In the process, the thieves get away with your money/identity/etc. These folks are faking being financial institutions based on the "abilities" they traditionally have.

Further, IMO many players and DM's treat classes as just numbers on paper - they treat their characters as an amalgamation of abilities they can do. I sincerely doubt that a village that was being lorded over by an evil creature or organization would question what class the adventurer(s) were that saved them. That noble LG fighter that follows Heironeous would be just as celebrated as a LG Paladin who freed them. Just like a LG rouge (yeah, right ) would be celebrated, regardless of what set of powers he used while risking his life for the villagers.

I'll agree with you, here, though I'll disagree, too.

Philosophical debating aside, at some point the character is just an amalgamation of numbers and abilities. It's up to the player to turn that skeleton into a real character, with ideas, ambitions, and motives for being, doing, and acting.

It's true that commoners aren't going to care (much) about who saved them from their Horrible Fate(tm). However, the con man concept goes beyond those villagers and tries to deceive those who should know better.

BTW: I don't believe you can 'fake' being LG to people for a long period of time. You either are, or you aren't. Your alignment is based on your actions. If you consistently do good, and act like a paladin, than you ARE becoming closer to LG. It's not like a mantle you put on for an act. Alignment reflects your inner being. And when people meet you, talk to you, etc they get a sense of what kind of person you are over a long period of time.

For the most part, I think you're right. However, I don't think it would be hard to fool people for a pretty long time. Collecting "tithes" for the church is easy enough, and only the people you hang around for a long time (i.e. fellow adventurers) are likely to discover the shenanigans after awhile ("Hey, you've collected 100,000 gold pieces for the Chuch of Philbert, right? So, when you gave them the money, they just gave you that longsword +5? Yeah, right... Let's talk, buddy...").

Keep in mind that this was a significant theme in "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets." Gilderoy Lockhart -- a dashing "wizard" of "gret ability" -- weaseled his way into the upper echelons of Hogwart's School. He was superb at pretending to be what he wasn't!

I've just never been a fan of a world where a group of adventurers walks into town, and the local populace falls on their knees, revering and extolling praise on the party "paladin."
A true paladin only gets respect from people he encounters by:
a) the actions that he has done for the people he encounters
or
b) the respect he is afforded based on some (usually) religious order that is known to the people he encounters. This order certainly would know whether this rogue is "faking it". Further, I'm sure they'd be quite upset if a rogue was faking being one of their organization, if he wasn't.

Here, we agree completely. However, the average person has a tendency to laud famous, powerful people. A true paladin does earn respect from people based on his deeds and actions (and maybe from the nearby monastery, too), but what about the leech who wanders into town and takes advantage of that? Surely, the nearby religious order would take great offense! And to me, this sounds like an excellent reason to play this character rather than to ban him from the game.

Although I can't be certain about it, I think that part of the allure of this concept for me is that it not only could fail, but more likely will fail. And, while I'll admit to having some fun with the front end of the character, I suspect my real enjoyment will come with this character's tragic transformation into- well, whatever he transforms into after his confidence game has been discovered!

Any questions, I'd be glad to clarify any of these points.

I appreciate your opinion on this. I've read a great number of your posts in the past, and I agree with you about 50% of the time. Regardless of whether I agree or not, you always have very insightful things to say. So please, pick my logic apart -- I feel it'll force me to make a better character, and that can never be bad.

 

[Umbran]

To fake or imitate a CLASS, you have to meta-game things.
You have to assume that the world knows about D&D classes, and the abilities and skills that come with it.
This requires a suspension of disbelief that I am not comfortable with.

For many classes, this might be troublesome. However, for paladins in particular, this might be a fair concept, depending upon the world. By the core rules, Paladins cannot freely multiclass. Whatever image folks have of Paladins have, then, is going to be pretty pure. And the Paladin shtick is pretty specific - religious warrior, above average mount, fairly restictive code of conduct. If the world has had a couple of Paladin heroes of renown in the past, the character may have it easy by following the trademarks.