price check: quiver of infinite arrows

[evilbob]

Christian raises a good point: perhaps Someone's "back of the envelope" calculations should use an average of 6 or 7 arrows spent per round instead of 4. Even still, that's only about 10,000 arrows.

Overall, I think that 2000 gold is probably reasonable enough for a quiver that contains an infinite number of mundane (but still magical for the purposes of anti-magic fields and whatnot) arrows. I'd say using the psionics spell for the base magical creation requirements is fine, too - just so long as people are willing to include such a spell in their campaigns if players want to make the item.

For the super nit-picky, I'd even say that the quiver appears normal and can carry up to 19 of any other type of arrow - so you could carry around 10 adamantine and 5 cold iron arrows in it, just in case. The magical property would essentially be that every time you reached to draw an arrow, a mundane one would be there. They'd last for 1 minute or until used (they can't be recovered).


Edit: However, I think any kind of quiver that produced greater quality arrows should be much more expensive than simply another 1000 or even 4000 gold, if nothing else than just for RP reasons (why would anyone ever make just one +1 arrow again?). I have no further ideas along those lines, however.

 

[Jack Simth]

Well, if you treat an augmented Bolt as a higher level spell, it works out okay - it's a convienience, not a long-term savings - for a 1st level spell equivalent, at manifester level 1, an infinite quiver of +1 arrows works out to 4,000 gp, guidelines (spell*caster*2,000 gp * duration factor = 1*1*2,000*2=4,000 gp; the price of 100 +1 arrows, ignoring the cost of the masterwork arrows); an infinite quiver of +2 arrows works out to .... 2.5*4*2,000 gp * 2 =40,000 gp; which is the cost of 250 +2 arrows (again, ignoring the cost of the arrows themselves). The price of an infinite quiver of +3 arrows works out to .... 5*7*2000*2=140,000 gp; nearly 389 +3 arrows. An infinite quiver of +4 Arrows becomes an Epic item at 6.5*10*2000*2=260,000 gp before the *10 Epic modifier. A +X bow will always be less expensive.

Mind you, if you treat an augmented Bolt as just a higher caster level, but not a higher level spell, nobody will ever make a +5 bow again. As it's a 1st level "spell" that, at a manifeter level of 19, gives +6 arrows at a cost of 1*19*2000*2=76,000 gp... where a +5 Bow costs 100,000 gp.

Another option on the infinite quiver is to look at the line in the item creation guidelines that mentions that step about comparing to existing items - an infinite supply of +1 arrows should have a cost on par with a +1 bow and a very large supply of mundane arrows, as they have comperable effects. An infinite supply of +2 arrows should have a cost on par with a +2 bow and a very lare supply of mundane arrows, as they have comperable effects. Or more generally, an infinite supply of +X arrows should have a cost equal to Y*the cost of a +X bow, where Y is some arbitrary multiplier or other.

 

[Someone]

Christian raises a good point: perhaps Someone's "back of the envelope" calculations should use an average of 6 or 7 arrows spent per round instead of 4. Even still, that's only about 10,000 arrows.

I did. It's 6 or 7 for the last 5 levels; from level 1 to 5 it`s 2 (just rapid shot) It averages to 4 or 5 for the entire 20 levls; and even that, it pushes the arrow cost to the later levels, where it's even more negligible. If the "quiver of infinite arrows" is too high, it'd be cheaper and still as good to buy (or use if you already have it) a bag of holding and stuff it with a couple hundred quivers, replenishing when you can.

 

[Unkabear]

I apologize the list of prices that I posted was a cut and paste from the wizards link with the Quiver of Anariel in it.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.

 

[Christian]

After the battle, you just refresh your quiver from the mundane quivers you carry in Bags of Holding or Portable Holes.

We're kinda nervous about putting arrows in our bag of holding. :\ We do plan on getting her a QoE, either buying if we can find one for sale, or making one once our wizard gets high enough level to learn Leomund's Secret Chest. It'll be a great place to store her collection of magic arrows at that point (as well as spare bows), but a safe & reliable source of large volumes of normal arrows would be kind of handy.

 

[zypherillius]

Infinite arrows you ask?

*pulls out Dragon Compendium*

"Quiver of Plenty: Crafted by Nestaril the Undying, one of the most venerated elven wizards of a previous age, these rare quivers are prized by those who own them. Although elves of ancient and noble lineage occasionally inherit a quiver of quiver of plenty from their forerathers, most of these items were destroyed long ago. Until recently no sage could duplicate these magical items.
Quivers of plenty are frequently made from leather of rich browns and verdant greens. At a foot long and about half as wide, the face of a quiver of plenty is a work of art, covered in resplendent reliefs representing images of the natural world, such as monkey-filled glades, packs of animals, or ancient deities of nature. Aside from its rich coloration and wonderful design, the quiver is otherwise like any other: A simple leather strap allows its owner to attach it to his back or waist.
A quiver of plenty provides its owner with a limitless supply of verious types of masterwork arrows. Whenever the owner reaches into the quiver of plenty his mental desire causes it to instantly create an arrow of the desired type that remains in existence long enough to fire. The quiver of plenty can create an infinite number of wodden arrows, steel-tipped arrows, silver-tipped arrows, and cold-iron-tipped arrows. It can also create five adamantine-tipped arrows each day. If the quiver's owner drops, hands off, or otherwise lets fo of a created arrow in a way that isnt firing it from a bow, the arrow disappears. All arrows created by a quiver of plenty dissipate into nothingness after they strike a solid object (whether the intended target or not.)
Strong conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wonderous Item, major creation; Price 18,000 gp; Weight 1 LB. Author: Richard Farrese. Source#328."

I hope i put it in right, i dont remember direct quoting out of a book, its been so long since i did it last, i hope its able to help.

 

[Unkabear]

I want one of those. Cheaper too.

 

[Jack Simth]

We're kinda nervous about putting arrows in our bag of holding. :\ We do plan on getting her a QoE, either buying if we can find one for sale, or making one once our wizard gets high enough level to learn Leomund's Secret Chest. It'll be a great place to store her collection of magic arrows at that point (as well as spare bows), but a safe & reliable source of large volumes of normal arrows would be kind of handy.

Oh, you just cap them off and strap them down in the quivers they come in so they don't fall out. Sure, it may become a problem if you drop a live opponent in there..... but most won't risk a trip to the astral by punctoring your bag, so.... at least, not the intelligent ones.

 

[Ranger5]

I copied the Lone Drow page when it was up and converted to pdf. I attached it to this thread already in a similar discussion.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=172874

 

[evilbob]

I really like zypherillius's post about the Quiver of Plenty - that makes for a very nice "step-up" to the more mundane object already discussed, with an appropriate increase in both price and power. And while the spell used to create it seems a bit high (and has the funny caveat of specifically stating that you cannot use that spell to create cold iron, but hey, whatever), since by the time you can cast 5th level spells you would most likely have quite the additional array of magical tools with which to deal with this problem - on the other hand, you'd have to be at least that level or higher before you could afford such an item, so I guess it seems ok.

I still think a simple and more mundane "bookkeeping" solution seems right for 2000 gold, since you could also use the "bag of holding + lots of quivers" option to hold about 1600 arrows for about 2580 gold (and the bag of holding can be used for many other things, thus increasing its relative value).

I think the 28,000 gold option for mundane arrows is right out at this point, although something on that order seems right for +1 arrows and above. Perhaps just keep the rest of the pricing structure for "upgrading" your quiver? I.e. 32,000 for +1 arrows, 44,000 for +2, etc.


ps. I also really like this description, since it works well on curbing abuse without adding durations or any other numbers you need to track. It just sets up simple rules that are intuitive and easy to follow and require no bookkeeping (yay!):

Whenever the owner reaches into the quiver of plenty his mental desire causes it to instantly create an arrow of the desired type that remains in existence long enough to fire... If the quiver's owner drops, hands off, or otherwise lets fo of a created arrow in a way that isnt firing it from a bow, the arrow disappears. All arrows ... dissipate into nothingness after they strike a solid object (whether the intended target or not.)

This keeps you from supplying an army, or never having to gather firewood again.