prices getting a little nuts?

[Darrin Drader]

This all sounds like that supply and demand curve. If consumers are willing to pay more then what you are selling it for then you are undercutting yourself. So, it seems, prices on the low ones are too low and need to be raised. Simple.

You're right, this has everything to do with the supply and demand curve. Currently, the supply of RPG books of any kind exceeds the demand. Those publishers wishing to survive this period are producing higher quality hardbacks for a higher price so they can stay in business. And, as pointed out, as the higher priced hardback books are released, this does cut out the amount of money most consumers can spend on cheaper books.

Add this to the fact that numerous publishers are steadily producing more D20 books than the market can support and the fact that customers can go to cut rate online vendors to buy their books and the only ones who are truly losing out are the retailers, who now must decide what they're willing to order and what they are not willing to order based on current sales. For this reason, I predict that in another 2 to 3 months you will start to not see products on the shelf from many of the publishers you do now.

In short, its market forces taking care of themselves. I don't think the average D20 customer is aware of just how dire the situation is right now. If you like the products of X publisher and you want your retailers to keep stocking their books, my recommendation is that you tell your retailer about it and put money down on preorders, otherwise the only way you're ever going to see it is on the publisher's web page for however much longer the publisher manages to stay in business.

 

[Nighthawk]

As a customer, my main concern is cost, simply because it is a concern I have with everything else where money is a direct factor. Ironically, the publisher has this very same concern. It's the all the other stuff that makes this a messy issue.

Even as a customer, I see this as basically a "if we can afford to publish it and the customer can afford to pay for it" issue, and such is a tricky thing to successfully pull off in a specialty niche market such as P&P RPGs. The competition within that market is tough to begin with. Add in the other specialties such as computer games, console games, miniatures games, etc. and it gets even tougher. Then factor in the other entertainment options for the consumer and the uphill climb is incredibly difficult to make.

Over the years, I have purchased many books, hardback and softback, of many different types (fiction, historical, mystery, etc.). I have never found that the RPG books are out-of-line at all (on a general level, that is). Overall, they have been typically cheaper in cost. I have wished that books were cheaper, but that is a purely selfish motive, not a realistic one.

I think that business market conditions are such that RPG businesses are going through what others already have and are also currently experiencing: getting a profitable product to your customer base at a cost where both sides consistently benefit is a lot harder than it first appears, and takes serious work to make it happen and do so for the long-term. In the RPG business, where so many folk are gamers first and likely have little-to-no business experience, unrealistic conditions can and do occur that will either surprise the business and customer base or create unrealistic expectations (to the consternation of both sides at times, IME).

Personally, I think market exposure and product shelf space (whether real world or virtual reality, so to speak) is important to the business. Unfortunately, this is a bad time for gaming stores, and places that stock such products as an additional choice (bookstores, etc.). This limits word-of-mouth business and impulse buying. I can only speak for myself, but IME, impulse buying was a fair amount of my purchases (and those I knew). This is no longer true, for various reasons. Perhaps the customer base has changed enough that they cannot be as readily identified and categorized?

I also see the RPG business as contracting in a serious way. I do not know how this will turn out, but I am hoping for the best. It's going to be painful methinks, but I see it as natural part of doing business in such a limited field.

 

[monkius]

Add this to the fact that numerous publishers are steadily producing more D20 books than the market can support and the fact that customers can go to cut rate online vendors to buy their books and the only ones who are truly losing out are the retailers, who now must decide what they're willing to order and what they are not willing to order based on current sales. For this reason, I predict that in another 2 to 3 months you will start to not see products on the shelf from many of the publishers you do now.

I have been thinking about ways we could go about solving this problem. What I am finding, is that when I am at the gaming store, there are just so many d20 books that I just get overwhelmed. I don't have time to skim them all, and with the price increases I worry about wasting my money by buying a book that ends up not being any good. I either end up not buying anything, or I buy something like the new D&D miniatures, neither of which helps FRP companies.

Reviews help, but when I am at the store I don't always remember what got the good reviews. What would be helpful, is if somewhere, like enworld, made a web page that is the 'essential d20' collection. It would be a list of those products that have been deemed good/essential by the gaming community with a short description. The products who were nominated for the Ennies would be a good place to start. That would make it easier for me to sift through all the products out there. For the products on the list, it would hopefully boost there sales over the long run. Which is what we want, rewarding those companies that create products deemed 'essential' with increased sales.

 

[Alejandro]

Baraendur's prediction (that retailers will no longer stock RPGs) is quite interesting. I've not visited an actual gaming store in years, mainly because I don't have the time. Instead, I purchase products in PDF when available (Malhavoc, Game Mechanics, ENPublishing, Expeditious Retreat) or directly from the source (Reaper, Bad Axe).

I was especially excited when Bastion began offering their older products in PDF. For those publishers who do not have an electronic version of their products or an online storefront for their print products: why?

 

[Desdichado]

You're right, this has everything to do with the supply and demand curve. Currently, the supply of RPG books of any kind exceeds the demand. Those publishers wishing to survive this period are producing higher quality hardbacks for a higher price so they can stay in business. And, as pointed out, as the higher priced hardback books are released, this does cut out the amount of money most consumers can spend on cheaper books.

If the supply is greater than the demand, then raising the prices certainly isn't going to help (sorry, I have a B.S. in Economics, and B.S. is just about right.) I think it's a lot more complicated than that, because RPG books are not a commodity in which one book at one price is easily swappable in the consumers mind with another book at another price. It's almost to the point where customers have a seperate supply/demand curve for each individual product -- at least that's the case for me. At a certain price point, I'll buy a product without question, at another price point, I'll wrestle with it, defer it, and maybe finally buy it, at another price point I simply won't buy it at all.

Along with what The Sigil posted, I'm not sure I have any better arguments other than I'd like prices to be lower, naturally. I'm not sure I'm going to try and propose some kind of complex switching mechanism wherein I buy different products than I otherwise would because of price, but certainly I have seen more products recently that are above my personal limit in terms of what I'm willing to pay (barring exceptional circumstances) for an RPG product. And it's not really because I can't afford it, it's because I have some kind of internal gauge of what I'll pay and upwards of $40 that starts to really go off like a fire alarm. Like I said, almost all of the expensive books I own, I bought on sale at a major discount.

 

[Desdichado]

First of, Monsternomicon is $30, B&W, and 240 pages. $30 isn't an impulse buy, atleast according a lot of folks here. When a book is 33% bigger, like 320 pages a fair price would be, $40 (ala BotR).

Yeah, but like I said, I can only speak for myself. I don't know what the impulse buy price point is for anyone other than for myself.

For that matter, on monster books, my impulse buy price point is higher than it is for other books. And I never actually said Monsternomicon or Liber Bestarius were impulse buys, just that I bought them sight unseen. I'd actually been looking forward to both of those for some time.

Also for that matter, I very rarely make impulse buy purchases anymore anyway. I've got tons of RPG material, much of it unread, on my shelf, and that's only a fraction of what's released. Because I like to think of myself as a relatively aware buyer who hangs around here a lot, reads reviews, reads posts relative to new products that I'm interested in, etc. I'm more likely to know what I want before I go to the store, pick that up, and then check out.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I was especially excited when Bastion began offering their older products in PDF. For those publishers who do not have an electronic version of their products or an online storefront for their print products: why?

The answer to both questions is: We must safeguard our relationship with retailers.

I will not offer a PDF of a product that is still in print in the distribution chain.

I will not offer my print products at a cheaper cost than full retail.

Remember, the retailers are our customers. I always prefer my customer to ask after my products FIRST at their local game store. I am happy to sell a single book to a customer, but a retailer is a customer who buys six or a dozen of the same title at one time. I'd rather sell a dozen than sell one.

Of course, this does assume that the retailers are doing their part to stay informed of my products and to get them on their shelves. At that point, they pretty much sell themselves.

Wulf

 

[Alejandro]

Wulf, I am willing to pay retail price directly from a publisher (because it's convenient), and certainly don't expect everyone to offer products in both print and PDF. However, Baraendur predicts that retailers will stock products less and less -- any [diplomatic] reactions to this prediction? If a print product does exit the distribution chain, would it be advisable or logical for more publishers (like Necromancer Games or other non-Malhavocs under the S&SS umbrella) to take the Bastion route?

 

[Mystic Eye]

So either way there will be less product available to people who do not want to sell their blood to buy a RPG book.
QUOTE]

Sell Plasma, ya get more for it and you can do it once a week or so. You get $50.00 a week so you can buy one book a week with your plasma!
OK, Just kidding.

As others have pointed out, these expensive books have always existed and more will come. There will still be less expensive books from everyone. We have several planned on top of a few larger hard-back books. We base it off what makes sense to put into a hard back format or not.
You will probably see less publishers this coming year anyway as the d20 bubble is obviosly bursting and many of the smaller folks might not even be interested in shifting gears to something else. It will not have a whole lot to do with the fact some Publishers are releasing larger, more expensive titles.

 

[Mystic Eye]

The answer to both questions is: We must safeguard our relationship with retailers.

I will not offer a PDF of a product that is still in print in the distribution chain.

Wulf

Actually, our experience is that PDF release have a good impact on print sales. Every time we release a older product in PDF we see a small boost in print sales on that product. So retailers, especially on-line ones may actually see a few more sales due to you releasing your products as PDFs.