Prisoner not allowed to play D&D

[Starbuck_II]

Again, with all of those considerations, I don't have much of a problem dangerous to prison staff on a daily basis are the ones who are the ones who have lost the most. The guys who are in solitary or in other forms of lockdown where they may be in their cells for up to 23 hours a day are with restricting possession of RPG stuff in the guy's cell, but I think its an entirely different matter if the stuff was in a lounge or library. IOW, with controls in place to monitor activity.

The current topic's prison said it banned all RPGs (even though only D&D was played in the prison). It didn't say you couldn't use them outside of liabrary, but anywhere.

 

[Blastin]

Again Danny has it right about the inmates and danger levels....in general. It's the one's that feel like they have nothing to loose that you have to watch out for the most. I have seen multiple murderer lifers that were as compliant as could be, because they felt like they had some control/something to loose, and I have seen guys who were short time and minor offense do something really stupid because of a feeling of hopelessness.

And the worst type of inmate is a bored inmate. We always tell the new staff: never underestimate the cunning and planning skills of even the most dumb appearing inmate. They have nothing but time to come up with stuff. That's why we try to keep them busy (ideally with something productive). Knowing they have a TV available may be upsetting to someone on the street, but for the officers (BTW...they hate being called "guards") TV is the greatest addition to corrections ever.

As far as the types of guys in prison...well...lets just say that the four categories that were listed before are pretty broad. There are MANY reasons/types. I have met inmates that I would trust, most I would would not.

The reason that the prison banned all RPGs is just simplicity. The admins don't have the time or inclination to be picky or specific. That, and if you start making exceptions to a rule, some inmate is gonna come up with a way to make that exception into a loop hole.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The current topic's prison said it banned all RPGs (even though only D&D was played in the prison). It didn't say you couldn't use them outside of liabrary, but anywhere.

While true, if challenged on grounds distinguishing between unsupervised ownership in one's cell versus supervised play in a prison library- an area normally only accessible to those who are on good terms with the prison administration (or researching the law)- or lounge might have some traction, ESPECIALLY if things normally considered contraband were available in that same area. By the facts of the case, all of the material was confiscated from inmate cells.

By that, I mean that if prisoners can play cards or games using dice in certain areas, but they are prevented from doing so because cards & dice are contraband elsewhere in the prison, a challenge trying to get RPGs similar status within those areas might be granted a de novo review, gaining a specific exemption.

It should also be pointed out that, for at least part of this case, the guy brought the case pro se, so his arguments in his favor may not have been the most articulate or on point (something the judges mention once or twice).

 

[arscott]

I'm listening to the oral arguments now. Missed this particular link previously. It's clear that my previous posts dissecting the opinion were a bit harsh--ruling against Singer suddenly seems perfectly reasonable in light of the arguments being presented by his (court appointed) attorney:

Counsel for the Plaintiff
...unlike most games, dungeons and dragons does not have a rule book. It does not have an instruction manual. It has... uh... publication that make reference to and incorporate various--

Judge(Interrupting)
It does have a manual. There is a trademarked game called dungeons and dragons, and then there's a large secondary literature about it.

Counsel for the Plaintiff
You're correct your honor, and I didn't mean to dispute the fact that there is an actual game, of course...

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[jaerdaph]

... his (court appointed) attorney...

Wow. Singer is the plaintiff in this case and the state had to pay for his attorney. Seems he does have some rights after all.

And, on another note, some dark, sick and twisted part of me really wants to know what edition of D&D he plays. Please tell me I'm not the only one....

 

[arscott]

Yeah, I was wondering about that "court appointed attorney" thing too. According to the decision, he began by representing him self, but was "eventually provided with counsel pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1915(e)(1)"

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A couple of words about court appointed attorneys:

Often when a defendant proceeds pro se, the courts will appoint an attorney to assist him. That attorney basically sits there like a relief pitcher- the defendant does everything himself unless and until the defendant asks him for help. Only in the rarest of cases will a judge interrupt proceedings and insist that the appointed attorney step up. Up until that point, though, its the defendant's choice & responsibility to defend himself.

In addition, I did a brief stint in the Dallas Public Defenders' Office. The people I worked with were knowledgable and competent attorneys...and extremely overworked.

Sometimes, they had to argue a case with only a couple of hours of familiarity with the case file.

They generally know what they're doing, but they may be so overstretched that they make errors, so you really only want a public defender if you can't come up with the $$$ for a private one.

 

[arscott]

Danny, could you say why Singer might have been appointed an attorney in this case, given that he was the plaintiff?

 

[gamerprinter]

A friend of mine's son went to prison in Illinois (1 year, then released on good behavior) played D&D everyday with his cellmate. They didn't have books, they didn't have dice. They used a box with pennies for die rolls, shake the box and count all the "heads" that was the dice roll.

Of course playing so much D&D, once he got out of prison he didn't want to play D&D anymore, as it reminded him of prison too much. He wasn't a murderer, rather "breaking and entering charges".

I don't know which prison, or if the officials were even aware - but it did keep in out of trouble while in prison...

GP

 

[Cadfan]

Courts can appoint attorneys for indigent plaintiffs. They don't generally have to, but they can.

There can be very good reasons for it. If a case is important, you want it done right.