Problem player in my group

[Vyvyan Basterd]

(And I wholly disagree with Mark and Knightfall1972 - don't necessarily involve the already overworked DM, unless your DM has already expressed further/continued interest in this particular conflict - players should police themselves, AFAIC.)

I partially agree. I'm the DM, not your Mommy, so don't come tattling to me that Fred is ruining your fun and you want me to fix it.

If you want to talk to Fred as a group, that I can get in on. As a group we need to tell him to stop being a jerk.

I've had a "Fred" in my group for about 20 years. When he inevitably resorts to his old habits we all tell him to stop and he calms down for a while again. It's really become more of a running gag in our group than a real problem anymore.

If your Fred is truly a good friend you do need to be direct with him, a good friendship should be able to withstand honesty. But if he can't change his behavior then you do have to make a decision whether you value your game more or your friendship more. Because once you boot him there is a chance he'll take enough offense to break your friendship. Others are correct that it probably won't end a strong friendship, but I've seen lifelong friendships broken over smaller slights than excluding a friend from a social activity.

 

[Wootz]

If you let it run on it might get to the point where your gaming group doesn't enjoy getting together anymore because that person in particular kills the experience for the players. My gaming group suffered from it. RPG Divas really don't help in a group based game. Maybe you should try talking it out with the other players to see what everyone wants?

 

[Oni]

I think I would try this tact were it me.

Grab a beer (or your beverage of choice) with him and just have a friend to friend chat. Tell him you've noticed that he's been really out of sorts at the games, hell everyone's noticed, that it can't helped but be noticed, in fact it's even distracting. Ask him what's wrong. Provided he doesn't say something really major is wrong, tell him you like him, but geez he's driven you nuts at the games. Give him another beer. Offer advice on how not to drive you and everyone else insane. Repeat until you think you've made an impression or he passes out.

If the problem persists or he lapses a few gentle reminders may be in order, if not then I suppose you'll either have to put up with it or proceed to more drastic action.

 

[Tewligan]

Maybe Fred is having a good time. Seriously. Some people have kind of a negative mindset they can't shake. So while he sits there and huffs and puffs and complains, maybe he is, in spite of himself, enjoying the challenges and surprises.

Who cares? It sounds like he's putting a damper on the game for the rest of the group. If he's only happy by being a dick, then maybe he should be shooed out of the group and find some other group that enjoys having a jerk at the table.

 

[Janx]

Not to plug my own blog, but I wrote an entry on dealing with problem players. Try that.

Key factor is this, in trying to fix the problem, you have a % chance of losing a friend. While friends aren't a dime a dozen, you've got to consider the price.

In the same vein, what kind of friend is he? Was he there for you when you were breaking up? Was he there when your relative died? Was he there to talk you down from that ledge? Was he there to help you move? Was he there to help you move the body?

Seriously. We might call someone a friend because we do the same activity together, but that's not a deep friendship. You're not losing much, in reality, if it fails, which oddly enough the % chance is higher for that type of friend anyway.


Other things to be wary of:
talking to others about Fred can be seen as talking behind his back (kind of hard to build a concensus on the problem, but it's true)
having the group talk to Fred can feel like you're ganging up on him
while the whole group may feel the same, fact is YOU have a problem with Fred, so solve that problem WITH Fred.
You don't have the right (as an individual) to kick Fred out (the GM or Host may have that right)
People with problem behaviors often swear to change, and they do for awhile, then they lapse back. The only cure is to not let them be in such situations anymore.

When Fred acts a certain way during the game, it makes you feel bad. Since nobody else acts that way, Fred's the odd duck. You can't make Fred change. Fred can understand that you have a right to not play in such an environment. Therefore, if Fred continues, YOU can quit. Go do something fun.

 

[pawsplay]

Who cares? It sounds like he's putting a damper on the game for the rest of the group. If he's only happy by being a dick, then maybe he should be shooed out of the group and find some other group that enjoys having a jerk at the table.

In this hypothetical example, Fred is my friend, so I care.

 

[Dire Bare]

I've played with "Fred" before. My Fred was also a good friend with similar in-game behavior. My quite unprofessional opinion is that people who act like this are trying to gain a sense of control and safety in their gaming that they may be lacking in real life. I don't know how well you know your own Fred, but I would advise thinking deeper about perhaps why he feels the need to act this way and be sympathetic. Not that you should pull him aside and try to pyschoanalyze him (that never works well), just that you should view the situation with understanding.

Having said that, regardless of the reason behind Fred's behavior, it isn't fair to the rest of the group. Most people like our Freds end up alienating their friends and becoming loners as people tire of their constant bad behavior.

How did I deal with my Fred? I was the DM, and I pulled him aside a few times to tell him his behavior was uncool. Sounds like your DM has already taken this step. Then, everytime my Fred got all sulky when the spotlight shifted away from his character or if his character faced real danger . . . I'd call him out on it right there at the table in a gently teasing yet exasperated tone of voice. "Fred, stop crying because the spotlight shifted away from Fistandantilus Mordenkainen the Wizard! Man up!" "Fred, don't whine when I challenge the players! I'm not trying to kill you, but unexplained lightning bolts from heaven aren't out of the question if you don't lighten up!"

Worked for me, but I had to constantly do it because my Fred never changed his behavior. Depending on how sensitive your particular Fred is, this approach may backfire!

 

[Hippy]

I'm fairly sure Fred knows that his tantrums are disruptive; he and I have had a confrontation once about that very issue. It did not end well, and nothing really came of it. I know our DM has had a few talks with him, but it was between the two of them. I've never actually witnessed his reactions to our DM's efforts, except I can say that they have ultimately proven ineffective. The sad fact is that I know he is trying to avoid being disruptive. He used to go on long, annoying rants every time something bothered him. Now, he just sulks. The only problem is that his sulking is just as disruptive as his rants, if not more so.

I would ask him point blank (albeit in private in necessary) "Are you having a good time? Because to the rest of us it looks like your aren't. Your sulking is bringing the rest of us down and this is suppose to be fun! Maybe you need a break? Should we try another game perhaps?

If this doesn't work then you need to take stronger methods and give him the boot if he doesn't shape up. In my thirty years of gaming there is nothing more irritating than a grumpy, whiny, gamer. If he loses his cool over the talking to, then IMHO he isn't being much of a friend to the group in the first place. In some cases just ignoring the problem is rewarding bad behavior. I don't tolerate it in my daughters or my friends when I see it, and if I do it my wife calls me on it immeidately (and rightfully so!) If he is a real friend he will drop the attitude or gracefully exit the game as to not wreck the friendships.

Just my two electrums. Best of luck,

Hippy

 

[Treebore]

I need to get this off my chest. First, I'm not the DM, I'm one of the players. We have a guy in our group, let's call him Fred. Fred is, overall, a good guy; his roleplaying is excellent and he doesn't miss game. The problem is that not a single game will go by without him getting a hair up his a#@ about something. Once this happens, he will get a big time additude and either rant for an hour, or sulk, effectively killing the mood and putting a strain on everyone elses enjoyment. I mean, he will sit there, pointedly reading a book, while a dark cloud will hover overhead.

So far, I have been able to pinpoint some of the causes to Fred's episodes:

1. If anyone ignores his character. Fred is very serious about his characters. Serious to the point that if he isn't constantly in the spot light, or if, god's forbid, some one elses character is doing some neat, he will get upset. Mr. Lookatme just HAS to be center stage, all the time.

2. Anytime the DM throws us for a loop or surprises us with a new monster. For example, we encountered a unique, one of a kind outsider. We managed to kill it with out any character deaths. BUT, naturally Fred was upset because the outsider was something he had never heard of, so of course the DM is being cheap and trying to kill us...
I, on the other hand, really enjoyed the fight, even though I dropped into negative hp; a refreshing encounter with a horrific monster is one of the coolest things in D&D. It was awesome to fight something new instead of another orc or ogre.

3. Anytime we are challenged Fred gets offended. Really offended, almost to the point that he feels that the DM is persnally attacking him. Fred feels that we should be gods, all the time. He doesn't say this, but I know he thinks it; whenever something is strong enough to be a threat, whenever something has to potential to kill us, he huffs and puffs and throws a temper tantrum. It's really quite annoying.
For instance, our characters have been defending a small town from an assault from stone giants. The DM has been logical and fair in all accounts. The rest of us are enjoying the challenge. But then there's Fred, being a kill joy as usual. He spent about 80% of both sessions sulking and silently killing the mood with his tantrum. And the reasons for this?
A) He is using up most of his spells! Gasp! The DM is in the wrong because he is making his character actually use most of his magic. Even though the DM said at the start that this would be the only encounter for the day, so we need not fear using all of our resources.
B) The giants not dying right on the spot. The DM is producing extra cheddar because stone giants can shrug off his fireball. Nevermind the average stone giant has 119 hp.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that people have bad days. Sometimes, you are in a bad mood or your day sucked and you lash out. It happens to the best of us. But Fred's crap is near constant. Almost every game in the last several months has produced this behavior. It is extremely childish and annoying. Fred is the oldest of the group, being in his ealy 30's. Yet it's like gaming with a 5 year old who whines whenever he doesn't get his way.
I try my best to ignore him when he is like this (which is often), but it is getting worse. He is ruining the fun of everyone else, to a lesser or greater degree.

Thank for reading. I've been carrying that for a while and needed to get it off my chest.

Get rid of him.

Or give him one last chance to shape up, then kick him to the other side of the town/city.

 

[SlyFlourish]

Crucial Conversations

My bullS*** management job is all about dealing with stuff like this. There are a few ways to deal with it that can possibly help:

1. Focus on the problem, not on him. This isn't about him, it's about disruptions in the game and in the fun that you want to stop.

"When we face a big hoard of giants and you start talking about how I'm trying to kill you guys, it begins to ruin the fun for the other players."

2. Talk about how you feel, not the way things ARE. Everything is an opinion so don't state it as fact. The "sometimes we feel like X" routine has a good way of disarming people. "Sometimes I feel like you're not enjoying the game and i worry that this is making it less fun for everyone else". I actually had someone do this to me in an MMO and I realized I WASN'T having fun so I left amicably. Talking about how you feel, how the other players feel, and even how he feels can work better than saying "you're a premadonna."

3. It's too late now but you probably should handle it as soon as you can, as close to the start of the problem as you can. I had a player who was pretty anti 4th edition and I had a talk with him about his ability to enjoy it when we switched. Now he's into it and we're good.

4. Remember to see things from his point of view. Don't discount his own feelings. If he's serious about some of his rants, consider them and discuss ways to address them.

The book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is full of good tips for dealing with hard conversations. This isn't a D&D problem, this is a people problem that's happened for thousands of years.