Problem player in my group

[the Jester]

I've been in a similar situation (haven't we all?) and one bit of advice that helped our group deal with it was, when you talk to Fred, make sure it's outside the context of the game. Not just before you start playing on Game Night, but in a time and setting completely removed from the game.

I can get behind this.

Again, having been there, I wish you guys luck and urge you not to let the issue fester- it will only get worse over time.

Please let us know what happens!

 

[Admiral Caine]

I'm late to this thread, but I have been in this situation before.

I was the DM. I felt it was my responsibility to deal with it. I still do. Admittedly, the guy is a friend, but he was closer friends with the other people at the table. Being DM is bloody hardwork, but in this case, I do think the buck stopped with me (or the responsibility fell to me, if you're not familiar with American catch phrases).

I called the player up and I explained that I didn't feel he was having a good time. He brought up some specifics, which I addressed, but gently kept returning to the "big picture".

The points I emphasized were:

1.) If he wasn't enjoying himself, he shouldn't be trying to force himself to like it.

2.) He needed to recognize that if he wasn't having a good time, others could sense it too.. and it was making them uncomfortable.

3.) I needed him to trust me as the GM. I welcomed questions about my decisions, but if he was worried about the motives behind my decisions more than the actual decisions themselves- that was a problem.

4.) Life is short. We shouldn't just make each other miserable, like a bad marriage where the people do care about each other but they weren't good in a close relationship. Yeah, I admitted that was a touchy feely kinda metaphor, but the comparison is valid. There's no sense driving each other nuts and having everybody else suffer with us. We can still like each other and not play together, I said to him.

5.) I appreciated that he didn't want to be excluded from his friends, and that he wanted to hang out. I pointed out that there was still chance for him doing that, without playing in the game. All he had to do is talk to everybody and we could do stuff with him that wasn't the game.

With all that in mind, I asked the player to make the call. If he wasn't enjoying the game, I respectfully asked him to resign. People should not being forcing themselves to do something they don't really enjoy. I never fired him.

And he never quit.

He's still in my group, and I am still GMing for him.

The conversation sort of finally opened his eyes, when all the other conversations, arguments, and rules discussions failed. He took a good look around and realized that nobody was having any fun, because he wasn't having any fun.

Now, I'm not a Shrink. I can't tell you exactly what sort of attitude adjustment he really made, deep down inside.

All I know is that he did adjust his attitude and things got better.

 

[BlackMoria]

If asking him to leave is not a option (yet...), then you need to stop feeding the troll.

His sulking or rants is trying to elicit sympathy or some other response and his continuing to sulk and rant means he is getting some payoff from it (such as, if I am not having a good time, no one else will and then everyone's mood is spoiled and he was gotten his payoff).

Stop feeding the troll. If he sulks or rants, everyone ignores him. No eye contact, no talking to him and certainly, don't let his funk drag down the mood of the group. In short, ignore the behavior and don't enable it. If he asks something in game, then respond but if he just vents or complains, look away and talk to the others like he isn't there.

If there is no payoff for the behavior, then the behavior should most likely change.

 

[Korgoth]

Here's a little more info on Fred that might give people a little more understanding. Fred is used to playing in the live action RP of White Wolf's World of Darkness. I'm not going to try to describe it for those who don't know but he's involved with the Cammarilla which is like RPGA's Living Greyhawk and other campaigns. He'd a pretty big guy there as he's been involved for over a decade and has a freakishly high MC class. Think of MC as when a new edition kicks in or your character dies you automatically start a new character out at a certain level.

He has quite the following in our region, is quite knowledgeable about the rules system in general and a good role player to boot. A dangerous combination if handled poorly. In our region little happens without his input, knowledge, or having the ability to squish. Move him to a game where he doesn't know the rules quite as well, isn't in the spot light, and can be on the receiving end of the squishing as much as the giving and you have a recipe for... well... what we have.

Sounds like he's a great guy as long as everyone is kissing his butt and treating him like royalty.

I guess everyone just has to kiss his butt and treat him like royalty for the rest of his life. I mean, what else are you gonna do?

 

[Wootz]

First I would like to thank everyone who has replied to this thread, whether it be some friendly advice or encouragement. Thanks!!

Some people have suggested giving Fred the Boot. I'd like to avoid that, if possible. What I'd really like to do is get together with the other players before game and discuss the issue. I hope to do that this week. My main worry is that nothing will get accomplished; two of the other members of my group are very close to Fred, having been friends with him for years. I myself have known him for a while, and think he's cool overall, even though we don't hang out outside of game.

Fred is very sensitive to criticism, and I know that any sort of talking to will make him feel like he's being attacked. Two of our group are his close friends, and that makes me think that they will be uncomfortable with the whole situation.

Ultimately, whether he is kicked out, chastised, or ignored falls on the DM and the others in our group. Were it up to me, I would probably drop him. If I were DMing, he would have been dropped already. I don't want to, because is he a good role player, but the constant tantrums are horrible.

He sounds like he has a persistent personality, in which case any number of discussions you have to address his behavior will end up null. Booting friends sucks, I know cuz I had to do it, but sometimes it's necessary. Your group should decide it together, though, and tell him you gave him fair chance.

 

[LostSoul]

Maybe Fred just doesn't like challenging fights.

Try this. Approach Fred with the idea that he's right, that the game does suck and needs to be changed. Because Fred is right. He's obviously not satisfied and he needs the game to change to satisfy him. Ask him what he wants to change.

(Sulking might not be the best way to deal with unsatisfying play, but let's forgive him for that and move past it.)

When you hear what Fred wants to change the game into, ask yourself if you're willing to do that. Do you want to play that way? If not, then maybe you guys should realize that you are playing for different reasons, you want different things out of the game, and that's okay. Maybe switch between campaigns where one is Fred's type and another is more difficult, challenging stuff.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Here's something to try: shock parole.

In some states, if you get convicted of a crime, they put you in jail...but the state has the option of paroling you long before your standard parole date would occur- usually just a few weeks or months into a much longer sentence.

Essentially, its the same thing you do when you send a child to his room, then let him out when he is "ready to be with other people."

Here, you would kick "Fred" out for a while, then invite him back and see how he reacts.

It can be quite effective.

My buddy "Derf" was kicked off of a bowling team that he founded by his younger brother for the growing number and severity of the tantrums he was pitching when he bowled poorly. (His current average is just slightly sub-pro level.) Nobody in our group bowled with him for about a year. Then, one day, he was invited back.

He still gets P.O.'ed when he bowls poorly, but he doesn't throw tantrums anymore.

 

[the Jester]

Maybe Fred just doesn't like challenging fights.

Try this. Approach Fred with the idea that he's right, that the game does suck and needs to be changed. Because Fred is right. He's obviously not satisfied and he needs the game to change to satisfy him. Ask him what he wants to change.

(Sulking might not be the best way to deal with unsatisfying play, but let's forgive him for that and move past it.)

When you hear what Fred wants to change the game into, ask yourself if you're willing to do that. Do you want to play that way? If not, then maybe you guys should realize that you are playing for different reasons, you want different things out of the game, and that's okay. Maybe switch between campaigns where one is Fred's type and another is more difficult, challenging stuff.

Again, this advice boils down to, "Appease the baby and let him (potentially) spoil everyone else's fun." Fred may be right that the game sucks for him, he's the only one in a position to answer that. But if everyone else is enjoying the game as is except for Fred's hissy fits, the way to make it better is certainly NOT to train him that sulking and throwing tantrums will get him his way.

If the game sucks for him, the right answer is for him to graciously step out. I have graciously stepped out of campaigns when I felt that the style was no fun for me to play, and I'm still friends with everyone else involved. But you know, if I threw a fit when I left, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone else thought of me as a jerk and a baby. Food for thought (for Fred, of course).

 

[LostSoul]

Again, this advice boils down to, "Appease the baby and let him (potentially) spoil everyone else's fun." Fred may be right that the game sucks for him, he's the only one in a position to answer that. But if everyone else is enjoying the game as is except for Fred's hissy fits, the way to make it better is certainly NOT to train him that sulking and throwing tantrums will get him his way.

I'm not suggesting that.

What I'm suggesting is that they take Fred's point of view as valid and they forgive him for the immature behaviour he's shown. That will create an environment where they can talk about what to do next.

I am not saying they should forgive Fred's behaviour and continue on as if nothing happened. I would suggest that they do not play again until these issues are worked out.

 

[the Jester]

What I'm suggesting is that they take Fred's point of view as valid and they forgive him for the immature behaviour he's shown. That will create an environment where they can talk about what to do next.

I am not saying they should forgive Fred's behaviour and continue on as if nothing happened. I would suggest that they do not play again until these issues are worked out.

Fair enough, but the "do not play again until these issues are worked out" still spoils everyone else's fun.

I'd say "don not play with Fred again until these issues are worked out" is more fair to the rest of the group, but really, I'd try to address the issues and work them out before the next scheduled session.