Problem Player Woes

[Pseudonym]

First read this essay on Geek Social Fallacies, then have a chat with him about his play style and its fit with your group. If you can't come to some sort of accord, boot him and don't look back.

 

[mkill]

Kick him and get over with it. Be upfront and clear about the reasons: "Your playstyle does not match this group".
If he kicks a fuss about that it's just another sign that being friends with him was not a good idea in the first place.
Just because someone is a friend and fellow gamer doesn't mean you have to tolerate his antics.

 

[rgard]

One of the hardest things I had to do as DM a couple years ago was remove a player from my group.

Fortunately, it was right as the group was forming for the first time; 4 new players was really too many, and so I simply called the problem player and told him (actually, I told his wife, since he wasn't home) that since he was the final new player in the group, I was not going to be able to invite him back.

She wept and wailed on the phone and begged me not to make her tell him, even though I called 3 times and he'd never come to the phone. I felt sorry for her, but I could NOT let him stay in the group.

Once in a while, you have to be cruel to one person to be kind to everyone else. The rest of the group to this day expresses how glad they were that I booted him out.

Took guts to boot him, I would have done the deed face to face at the next game session instead of telling his wife.

 

[rgard]

I'm a bit at my wits end with my situation. I dug myself into this situation, I know ...

TLDR version: How do you handle a friend who's making the group slowly miserable.

I've always had a pretty small pool of players to draw from for my games. Awhile ago we ended up playing with someone, who I'll call John, who had been a friend of mine. The other players were ok with it, and we got to gaming. Over time we really grew tired of his style of play though.

John is the most cautious player I've ever seen. John is the kind of guy that will hide a hundred feet away and watch a combat to see if he's needed, and runs at the first sign of trouble. When threatened with getting no xp, he figures out the least amount of work he can do to get credit, all while making sure he never draws fire on himself. It's hard to describe, but he's been a master of skirting the edge for awhile now.

Eventually our game fell apart, though not because of him. When a few newer friends of mine started talking about wanting to me to start up a game, I was excited. John heard about this, and wanted to jump in. I was cautious, and should have listened to my gut, but why not? "He's a friend, let's do this!" And I finally had a group again.

Ever since then we've had problems with him. I don't know if I can convey it well enough here, but again, he's the master of skirting that edge. Sometimes it's just bad playing, sometimes you can't figure out if he's doing it on purpose, and he's still completely concerned about dying. His most famous moment was when the group brought a Xill down to the brink of death, (one hit point), and rather then punching him in the face, as monks are known for doing I assume, he went total defense. For twenty seven rounds. While the group is down and dying. The group exploded on him, but decided not to kick him out.

John still plays overly cautious, even to the point of rolling multiple dice, over and over again in silence, to see which one is going to roll well before he commits to an action. He seemingly waits to make "the big play" instead of participating in every round of combat, like spending 5 rounds hiding, going invisible, casting fly, slowly going up the cliff, then, rounds later, casting Mage Armor and lying in wait, all so that he could grab a player out of a grapple and Dimension Door him to safety. He continues to drive the group mad with wonky characters, like making a sorcerer that rolls percentage to see if he's going to cast spells or fire his crossbow. He makes comments like his character has plans to wipe the entire group and "jokes" about how he's going to kill each one. Last week, when his character died, he calmly suggested we scrap the entire campaign story, and possibly scrap my world I've had going for 15 years, because he didn't care for the story or any of the other players' characters.

We've talked to him before, but he doesn't take any of the new players seriously, since he's been in the group longer. He laughs at concerns and thinks everyone ELSE is playing bad and not keeping up to his level. The worst is that he's not always this bad. Like I said earlier, he's the master of balancing on that edge and when he starts to push his luck, he backs off just enough.

So what should I do? What's the best way to go about solving this problem? Straight kick, no chaser? Group pow-wow? Start a three strike process? I've never had to kick a player before, ever, so I don't know how to go about it.

You sit down with him. Explain that his play is disrupting the group. Tell him what he needs to change. If he doesn't change, boot him face to face. For the initial meeting and probable eventual boot, do it alone. He may be annoying but you don't need to do any of this in front of others.

 

[Wild Gazebo]

Well, if your not interested in kicking him out of the group: treat him like a NPC.

I was a member of one group whose characters insisted on all new members 'buying into' the group (in character). This consisted of hazing, internship, monetary fees, and at first only receiving a small fraction of the loot.

Allow the power of the group to fix the problem. I mean if I was in a very dangerous profession and one of my partners didn't contribute: I would not share the spoils. And I certainly wouldn't trust my life to the individual.

This will slowly alienate the character from the group...which will force the player to want to take up valuable time with 'personal' endevours...which you, as the DM, will have to politley decline as you DM for the group: not his character.

This, hopefully, will steer him toward playing with the group. And if it doesn't it becomes a MUCH easier conversation to have about leaving said group.

 

[the Jester]

So why do the other characters hang out with him?

Not the PLAYERS, the CHARACTERS?

If a member of the party doesn't help out, they should kick him out of the party. And if the guy's new pc won't help out, they should kick him out of the party... after one or two combats. They're looking for help, not a treasure tax.

Since you've already spoken to the player and he blew the group's concerns off, I'd sit down with him and give him a short "this-is-how-it-is", too. Let him know that the discussion before didn't do much good so you're trying again, but that if the problem persists, you will solve it in the only other way you can- by booting him. Point out that he's been skirting the edge for a long time, so doing the least amount possible to gain xp (or whatever) is not enough. Give him a fair appraisal at the end of each session, but if he hasn't shown marked improvement after the second one, I'd let him him know- next game is strike three unless he hits a home run.

And this is the most important part: Follow through. If he doesn't come around to a playstyle that fits better with your group, boot him. Don't let whining or bitching dissuade you: if you don't boot him, everyone is going to have less fun. Let him know it's nothing personal, it's for the good of the group, and that you still want to hang out with him- you just don't want to game with him anymore.

If you do not follow through, though, you will lose a great deal of credibility with these guys.

 

[Jhaelen]

John is the most cautious player I've ever seen.

I know. John's a player in my group. He's not calling himself, John, though.

Anyway, since everyone knows what's the deal with him, we've learned to play exactly as if he wasn't present, or rather the pc's treated as an unimportant npc/henchman. The pc is not taken into account for anything. He used to be the party's scout, but someone else covers that role now. It's a pity since there was a time when he used to have something to contribute. The weird thing is that he seems to be happy just to tag along. So, that's what he does most of the time.

 

[Wolf1066]

Closest I've come to a situation like the OP was years ago. Long-term friend, played in a number of RPGs together - D&D, Traveller, Cyberpunk and the like so I invited him along when I started up my own Cyberpunk game. At first he was OK then he started just hanging back. He decided his character was somehow "above" everyone else and started acting like the other characters had to "justify" taking up his character's time/energy. e.g. (and bear in mind that he, the player, has got into his car and driven across town, presumably to play an RPG, presumably with the players of the other characters in the team) his character is usually somewhere miles away from the other characters and they decide to do something - go to the pub, cruise up and down the main street, whatever - and the only way they can contact his character is by phone, the player then makes out like his character's "deciding whether to go or not" (like, what's he going to do? Sit there and twiddle his thumbs while all the other players have fun RPing a brawl at the pub?) - it came across as very condescending towards the players and the game as a whole. Then he turns up and doesn't participate - I threw an automobile accident at the characters... they are first on scene at a horrific crash and are racing around helping people, doing first aid and medtech rolls, fending off rubberneckers and organleggers. This bloke informs me that his character is leaning against a nearby wall "observing" the action.

So, the team gets no help at all - even when they come under fire - and the other players do all the work resolving a situation I had planned with all characters in mind.

The next game session, the player informs us that his character is on the opposite side of town, one of the other players says he phones the character and invites him to join the group for a night on the town. Player has his character hem and haw a while then agrees. Starts heading into town. I get him to roll awareness, then I ask him if his car is armoured, then I start rolling dice - lots of dice.

The practical upshot of being out and alone and failing his awareness check was that the character and his car became the lining of a rather large hole in the middle of the road.

None of the other characters were particularly perturbed.

Oddly enough, his next character stayed close to the group and was very active in supporting it and doing his fair share.

 

[WizarDru]

First off, welcome to the forums.

Second, Umbran's advice above is pretty solid. Listen to it. Be forthright and be honest. Anything else merely delays and intensifies the bad feelings that may occur and can turn a bad situation into something worse.

Dungeons and Dragons (and all table gaming, really) is a SOCIAL activity. D&D, in particular, is an exercise in group dynamics. Virtually every edition makes the assumption that everyone in the group is, at some level, cooperating towards a common goal. Whether it be escaping slavers, hunting pirates, plundering an ancient temple, defending a village or negotiating a peace treaty...the common denominator is that it is a group of adventurers who MUST work as a team to succeed.

For this to work, the PLAYERS must cooperate. As a DM, your primary responsibility is to make sure everyone is having fun (including YOU). If John doesn't appreciate the same style of gaming that the rest of the party does, then he needs to adapt or leave. If he views this simple truth as some sort of rank betrayal, then ask yourself...how good of a friend is he, truly?

 

[amerigoV]

Your players are too nice. They should gank his character, camp the graveyard and take all his stuff.