Problem with high level wizards....

[Mal Malenkirk]

I have played the game and after using my daily and encounter, I was using Reaping Strike or Cleave each and every round. That's no different than using Full Attack each and every round.

Well, yes it is.

You sentence is almost satire. Is that what it is?

''Once you have used two of your options, you have only two options left. How is that different from one option?''

 

[Otterscrubber]

Heh, I just realised as I was looking through a 16th-level fighter I made up, that if he was to use every single one of his powers in one combat, one per round, not including renewed encounter powers from his crits (a paragon path feature), and including item powers, then he would be doing something different every round for 19 rounds.

And that's only using his at-wills once each.

At 23rd-level, there are a bunch of powers that renew other powers, so not even including them, you'll probably have about 25+ worth of choices for any particular encounter.

If that's not enough, then wait til 5e. I'm sure they'll up the ante

Can you give me some examples of the powers that renew other powers? For wizards..... I know the archmage epic path does, but what lower level ones?

 

[Victim]

Can you give me some examples of the powers that renew other powers? For wizards..... I know the archmage epic path does, but what lower level ones?

Spellstorm Mage recovers a power each day based on a Wisdom check. The blood mage can spend a surge to get back a power.

 

[StarFyre]

i find this funny

using enemies intelligently, most of our battles last quite long (4E standard or longer)..they are cinematic and exciting due to how I run them....and my players have said themselves, they never feel wizards are stealing the show since I always have stuff to do for everyone.

I personally think that alot of the complaints are due to lack of DM experience in creating dynamic encounters.

4E does make it easier but at the lack of much character difference. Honestly, it's looking so much the same for everyone, that my friends aren't happy with them.

However, I find tons of stuff to like in 4E's new rules...so we are going to use it, and add in all our custom stuff to make the game how we like it.

I do agree that wizards were the most powerful, but if you had players who didn't spend weeks trying to maximize, and just played (of course they would do some min/maxing..everyoine does), and the DM knew what to do..it wasn't an issue.

*shrug*

Sanjay

 

[Otterscrubber]

Try playing the actual game. I've played through and ran a few dozen encounters now and not once have I seen an "at will power grind" to end some 30 round super fight. It's a myth (mostly yours). The at wills aren't some basement weaksauce. They are actually quite useful abilities that get used tactically throughout a fight, not reluctantly only when there is nothing left. They are part of the package of tactical options available to that character. There are plenty of situations where tide of iron or eyebite or scorching blast or any of them are the better choice than an encounter or daily power.

I agree that at-wills are not useless, surely they are all more effective than a basic attack, melee or ranged. Although I will say that I was hoping for an increased selection of at-wills at higher levels. The fact that my lvl 23 toon has the exact same at-will options that he had at lvl 1 is a bit disappointing to me. Not that I wanted to lose magic missile , but was hoping for some more intersesting green options...

 

[Otterscrubber]

I have played the game and after using my daily and encounter, I was using Reaping Strike or Cleave each and every round. That's no different than using Full Attack each and every round.

Agreed. By round 11 our group was almost defeated, we had missed with 4 of our 5 daily attacks, everyone had used encounters and action points and we were down to just trying to swing with our at-wills, while the monsters apparently can recharge their encounter or daily equivalent powers the longer the fight goes on. It was about to get very ugly.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I mean, how exactly did elminster survive alone in hell given that his powers are so mcuh weak; how did raistlin take on half the dragon queens army, etc.

Well, first off, the changes to the way magic works are not retroactive in those campaign worlds. Elminster USED to be uber-powerful, but then Mystra got killed (again) and there was a Spellplague and now he's not a demigod anymore. It'll all be in the FR novels and sourcebook coming out soon. Dragonlance will probably go into the Forty-Seventh Age in order to account for the 4e conversion too.

Also, let's not forget that Elminster in 3e had all sorts of wacky prestige classes, and in the DL novels Raistlin became powerful enough to challenge the creator gods. They're hardly out-of-the-book wizard characters.

If the question is more generally, "how does a wizard become crazy powerful in 4e?" the answer is simple: he levels up and faces a lot of minions and lower-level enemies. Heck, if Raistlin was level 29 in 4e he could cast Legion's Hold and kill every minion in a 100 foot radius. The difference is, now a level 29 fighter can do equally wacky stuff.

 

[Aria Silverhands]

Quick note: you're missing two prereq feats here, since trip and disarm need combat expertise and bull rush needs power attack. If you want to use a whip (and have at least 2 levels of ranger) you'll need at least 6 feats, which will be possible at ~6th level. As a human ranger 1, you could take EWP:whip and Combat Expertise or Expertise and Trip/Disarm, but that's about it.

Meh. There are other trip weapons that don't require a feat to use. I just threw together stuff off the top of my head.

Well, yes it is. You sentence is almost satire. Is that what it is? ''Once you have used two of your options, you have only two options left. How is that different from one option?''

The difference between Cleave and Reaping Strike is laughable. One lets you deal STR dmg to a secondary target. The other lets you deal STR dmg on a miss to the primary target.

 

[Spenser]

The difference between Cleave and Reaping Strike is laughable. One lets you deal STR dmg to a secondary target. The other lets you deal STR dmg on a miss to the primary target.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Cleave and Reaping Strike are useful in entirely different tactical situations.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

...The lvl 1 eladrin ranger I'm making...

You're making a character?

Why are you playing a game you hate so much? You spend so much time complaining about it, I can only conclude that 4th edition causes you a lot of stress. That's the exact opposite of what a game should do.

I say this with no sarcasm whatsoever: do things that make you happy. It's great for both mental and physical health.