Profession skills and 4th ed

[Saeviomagy]

Whatever the situation in which the DM would like the PCs to be involved and for which he thinks sailing is a relevant skill. Ship to ship combat comes to mind but there could be others especially in a sailing-themed campaign. Suppose the PCs want to bring a ship in close to the shore yet the coast is rocky and barely navigable. Or, a storm is coming in and the PCs need to secure the ship against swells - the scenario and the consequences are up to the DM and I have not heard, yet, a suggestion that an entire campaign be decided on one single die roll. Yet you seem convinced that is what is being discussed here.

Most implementations of ship-to-ship combat tend to go overboard on what you do with your sailing skill. I'd really like one that does to ship-to-ship combat what the 4e rules have done to combat in general (less rolls, faster turns etc).

If you're saying that the coast is rocky, and a sailing check is required to not sink your ship, then you ARE deciding the campaign on a die roll. That's kind of my point. In a ship-based campaign, the ship effectively is the campaign setting, and sinking it tends to have dire effects.

Anyway, I'm derailing significantly here. Personally I like the "+2 to skills in a familiar area" bonus as a sort of profession-fill-in feat. I feel it covers a broad range of possible professional skills, avoids significant abuse and still leaves an incentive for people to pick up the skills that might fit within their profession without making them overly powerful and inconsistent (ie - a +5 to all skills while sailing is a bit odd, because bad climbers become good climbers just based on whether they're on a boat or not - the familiarity clause makes a bit more sense).

 

[WyzardWhately]

Ah, but there is a difference.

If it's a skill, PCs (and everyone else) get a default in it equal to 1/2 level + Attribute.

My way, I can say, "You have no blacksmith training? I don't CARE if you're a 20th level wizard, you can't make a horseshoe. Bugger off."

So, I guess you could argue it's a skill with Trained Only, but I don't know if they exist in 4e yet.

Or you could go the Nobilis route (which is what I may do.) This is to say, that 20th level Wizard can make the horseshoe. Or, at least, take the iron, and make an object that will fulfill the function of a horseshoe. He does this because the mechanics say he can. Narratively, however, he is probably not doing it in the same *way* that a trained blacksmith would do it. Precisely how he does it might be an interesting question to ask.

 

[pawsplay]

Any thoughts on how this can be handled in the new edition?

Dungeoneering... in SPAAAAAAAACE!

 

[Farstrand]

I came up with the same solution a lot of other people here did, and posted it a few months back. Just have a feat called "Professional Training", which lets you define a profession, pick an appropriate attribute (fixing the 3e problem of all professions being Wis or Int based; "Joe the Smith has Str 3, but he's a better smith than Big Tom, Str 16, because he's so wise!"), and you get +5 on attempts to perform anything related to that profession, including Knowledge checks logically covered by it. (So someone with Profession:Smith would be able to identify types of metal ores, know if an axe was orc-make, and so on. This provides the much needed "adventuring justification" for out-of-combat skills.)

Short note. It doesn't matter how strong you are for blacksmithing. Sure it might be a small help in making you more effective, but really it is endurance and how smart you are that makes a good blacksmith. And how accurate. So I would make it a DEX skill before STR anyday.

Farstrand, the smith.

 

[Falling Icicle]

The lack of skills like sail, crafts, professions and performance bothers me. If there aren't rules for them, I plan to use a house rule. Every character gets 1 or 2 background skills. These cover things like crafts, professions, hobbies, etc. Things that can be somewhat useful for making money on the side or just rounding out your character's personality, but not useful enough to be adventuring skills. Maybe your character is a great cook, artist, gambler, singer, blacksmith, or whatever. This way every character is rounded out without having to sacrifice things that are good for adventuring.

 

[Lizard]

Short note. It doesn't matter how strong you are for blacksmithing. Sure it might be a small help in making you more effective, but really it is endurance and how smart you are that makes a good blacksmith. And how accurate. So I would make it a DEX skill before STR anyday.

Farstrand, the smith.

"The smith, a mighty man is he, with...really agile hands".

OK.

(I always liked systems which used averages of attributes as a base for skills, ala Rolemaster, anyway...)

 

[thalmin]

The lack of skills like sail, crafts, professions and performance bothers me. If there aren't rules for them, I plan to use a house rule. Every character gets 1 or 2 background skills. These cover things like crafts, professions, hobbies, etc. Things that can be somewhat useful for making money on the side or just rounding out your character's personality, but not useful enough to be adventuring skills. Maybe your character is a great cook, artist, gambler, singer, blacksmith, or whatever. This way every character is rounded out without having to sacrifice things that are good for adventuring.

You mean, like it was in the 1E DMG, but with points added. I would be surprised if this is not addressed in the 4E DMG. If it isn't, this will be an easy house rule.
It's wonderful how diverse our campaign styles can be. While non-adventuring skills are meaningless to some, they are vital to others.

 

[2eBladeSinger]

If you're saying that the coast is rocky, and a sailing check is required to not sink your ship, then you ARE deciding the campaign on a die roll. That's kind of my point. In a ship-based campaign, the ship effectively is the campaign setting, and sinking it tends to have dire effects.

No where did I say 'a failure of any sailing roll will lead to utter ship annihilation and TPK' this is absurd. Can you really not see that other possibilities might exist here?

 

[valeren]

It's wonderful how diverse our campaign styles can be. While non-adventuring skills are meaningless to some, they are vital to others.

I totally agree with this statement.

 

[Ahglock]

Short note. It doesn't matter how strong you are for blacksmithing. Sure it might be a small help in making you more effective, but really it is endurance and how smart you are that makes a good blacksmith. And how accurate. So I would make it a DEX skill before STR anyday.

Farstrand, the smith.

Really depends on how you define attributes. Yeah if strength is just the lift crap stat it doesn't help much for well anything other than moving furniture. If it also implies a high level of muscle control it very easily could be the correct stat for blacksmithing. Precision control of a heavy object, sounds like strength to me.