Pronounciation of Justiciar

[Knightfall]

For the real world Justicier I'll check the dictionary

The RPG term Justicar is Just-ih-car. Nice and harsh sounding. Just right considering the character is using to drive justice home.

This is the way I pronounce it.

 

[Knightfall]

The English language is the product of Norman invaders attempting to pick up Anglo-Saxon women. The resulting language is about as legitimate as the resulting offspring.

High Lair E Us!

I have to sig that.

 

[Emirikol]

The ever growing list of things that D&D gamers can neither spell, nor pronounce correctly is below (and with other posts :

Chimera
Celtics
Louisville
ixitxachatl
flumph (it's FLOOOMF!)
ROUGH
ROGUE
ROUGE
Trebuchet
Bardiche
chasm
foyer
bas relief
Wee Jas
St Cuthbert
Olidammara
Druuu-id
Forth EeeedeeeesheeeON!
now we can add the justice-sheer!

jh

 

[Pale]

And spelling, too.

And I have to agree. Spelling and pronunciation are NOT matters of opinion. The English language is NOT a matter of opinion.

Actually, yes it is. It's a matter of mass opinion and common usage. If it weren't, there would currently be no distinctions the English language and the German language (as an example).

Dictionaries don't dictate usage, they report common usage (and good ones also report less-common as well as former usage).

I'd suggest researching linguistics a bit if you're going to make such bold statements.

 

[Cam Banks]

Things change. Either start spelling and speaking Old English or accept that languages change.

So you ARE on the "rouge," "villian," "loose" bandwagon then? Just so we're clear. Those have been spelled incorrectly or misused for decades by gamers. Should I get used to that, too? All I can see is a gigantic dodge in support of a dumb mistake at this point.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[breschau]

So you ARE on the "rouge," "villian," "loose" bandwagon then? Just so we're clear. Those have been spelled incorrectly or misused for decades by gamers. Should I get used to that, too? All I can see is a gigantic dodge in support of a dumb mistake at this point.

Cheers,
Cam

No, actually, quite the opposite in fact. Rouge for rogue, lose/loose are misspellings where both are existing words, not new words. Villian is a misspelling, that could be a new word. But, there has been no consistent use of that misspelling included in series of books, with constant use by game companies. Justicar has existed, as a consistently spelled word in many published game books, and proofed by editors every time. There is a huge difference between them.

There's also a difference between the lazy spelling of internet forum posters when compared to the game industry. It's not about the internet and lazy spelling. There is an assumption of quality (of spelling at least) inherent in spending money on a published book. On a forum no one's editing the text, in a published book at least four people have read the text (writer, editor, designer, and proofreader), all looking for errors. But mistakes happen. I've sure made them, but luckily others in the process have caught the mistake. I've caught other peoples' mistakes too. I'm not talking about internet forum spelling. You're falsely equating the two. I'm talking about the game publishers you're talking about the gamers. As both, my money's on the publisher for the reasons listed above.

If you see the your/you're mistake in a post that's one thing, if it's in a published book, that's another.

 

[Pale]

So you ARE on the "rouge," "villian," "loose" bandwagon then? Just so we're clear. Those have been spelled incorrectly or misused for decades by gamers. Should I get used to that, too? All I can see is a gigantic dodge in support of a dumb mistake at this point.

Cheers,
Cam

As much as I abhore those three misspellings, I'd say that they could eventually become the standard. "Bird" was once spelled "brid" and "ask" was once "aks". Letter switches in spelling and pronunciation are extremely common in living languages.

 

[Spatula]

The "languages change" argument is a bit of a red herring, really. Justicar is a cool-sounding word invented for RPGs. Justiciar is a real word from western Europe's past. They're not the same word, so arguing about rogue/rouge mispellings is off the mark.

 

[Cam Banks]

The "languages change" argument is a bit of a red herring, really. Justicar is a cool-sounding word invented for RPGs. Justiciar is a real word from western Europe's past. They're not the same word, so arguing about rogue/rouge mispellings is off the mark.

It wasn't invented for RPGs. It was very likely supposed to be "Justiciar" but whoever first started to use it left the I out by accident. Who are we talking about, here? White Wolf? Renowned back in the day for their editorial masterwork, see page XX.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Novem5er]

The 'g' is there in the normal pronunciation, at least in the US - "swimming" sounds different than "swimmin," for example, though some dialects might drop the 'g' sound. And the vowel sound is a soft 'i', not a hard 'e' - "this" as opposed to "bleed."

You just used the words "normal pronunciation" and "in-the-US" in the same sentence Think about that, for a second. You said the vowel sound is a soft "i"... you mean in the first part, like "tiff-ling" not "teef-ling"? Or did you mean the vowel sound in -ing... in which case, by your example, "ring' should have the same vowel sound as "this".

Regarding the 'ng' sound, it is rather soft in English, but even there it's unmistakable. I hate to suggest this, but maybe you don't know what the phoneme is supposed to sound like?

I have always said 'teefleeng', as I have also always said 'halfling' with the 'ng' sound. To hear it in English well, you rather have to use it in the middle of a word. A good example is 'hanging'. You don't say 'han-ging' and you don't say 'han-ing'. You say 'hang-ing'. This is how the phoneme is pronounced in English as well as every language that has the distinct phoneme in its phonology.

Just to clarify, I do live in the US and am a native English speaker. As a matter of fact, I've grown up in 3 different corners of the country (Navy Brat) and have been exposed to thousands of different people all speaking English in various ways. For the last decade, I've lived in Central Florida, which is the "south" but not too southern, so I can most recently speak to this area. I also scored the highest mark on the US government's DLAB exam and enlisted in the Army as a crypto-linguist/analyst and was booked to learn Chinese or Arabic out in Cali (before I was discharged w/ stress fractures that weren't healing).

I don't want to battle anyone, but Ulthwithian, especially, I find your comments extremely uppity, as if this were a forum discussing Victorian furnishings rather than a game that requires imagining elves and goblins.

This is how the phoneme is pronounced in English as well as every language that has the distinct phoneme in its phonology.

WTF are you even talking about? I spell my pronunciation as "teefleen" ... yet you decide to call me out and question my understanding of English phonemes so you can, what? Add a "g" at the end of your spelling? "Teefleeng"?

My point wasn't about the "g" in the first place, nor the "n" sound. I was talking about the common vowel sounds of ee and ee. Teef and leen(g). But you're right, thank you for questioning and correcting me.

Let me be more specific. YES, there is a soft difference between the "n" sounds of keen and -ing. However, if I challenge anyone to walk around a local gaming store and count the number of times you can actually hear the "g" at the end of halfling, tiefling, running, singing, or any other -ing word. If you count more than a single instance, then congratulations you live in most well-spoken town in America!

But what do I know? I wasn't schooled at Oxford in the Queen's English.