(Proposal) Learner Prestige Class

I'm with CS here. Trying to build a blanket formula is just going to cause problems.

However, going through every monster in the SRD before getting the class approved is a little silly.

How about something in the middle? Define 20-ish of the more common blue abilities (2 or so per level 1-9) and just list it as DM fiat for setting the level for any ability not on the list.

Note: To solve problems down the line, you should define some of the more gnarly ones (i.e. quickness) as part of the initial set.
 
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Honestly, if you really want to undertake such a large class as this, you have to be willing to go so far as working down the whole SRD. My SRD for my homebrew campaign is 22 megs. Most recently I had to go through the entire spell lists/magic section and any spellcasting class section to edit the entry to include the recharge magic variant from Unearthed Arcana. Took at least 10 hours, but I did it in little bits and pieces, and it makes the whole thing smooth and clear. I even caught all of the typos in the text of the feature, and made notes on the errata to send in.

I'm just saying that, although arduous, a few people could undertake this task in relatively little time. How many creatures are there in the SRD? Less than 500?
 

I admit that I'm not against the idea of going through the SRD and setting spell levels and such.

However, I like the idea of using a formula, and I'd like to stick with it, if possible.

For one, the formula - as it stands - indicates that blue spells are harder to use than normal magic, that they stand outside the standard magic architecture. The fact that they require the expenditure of so many spell levels worth of spell slots, quite often which is higher than 9th-level total, is also indicative of this. It's not just mechanical at that point, it's also flavor.

Also, if new monsters are added, be it by DMs or by the LEW community as a whole, it means that I (or someone else) doesn't have to go through it and determine what level the spell is - it's already done, with the formula, and it requires almost no work to determine how it fits in the formulaic system.

However, if everybody really thinks that it would work out better if I went through the SRD and gave every Su and learnable Sp ability a spell level, then I suppose that's what I'll do.

Really, right now, the only sticking point with the formulaic system is Quickness, and other abilities like it - abilities used by low-CR creatures that would be high-level spells if they were part of the normal spell architecture. "Standard" blue spells - Su abilities that are pretty even with their monster's CR - don't pose an issue; Sp abilities that replicate spells and list a CL are easy to deal with using the formula I posted earlier (CL - Learner level).

I also figured today that, if a blue spell would require an item that is not part of the monster's natural anatomy (a lantern archon's trumpet, a grig's otto's irresistable dance), then the learner cannot use the spell. That prevents some broken things from occuring, as well as making it fit the flavor of the class - the learner shouldn't be able to replicate what a creature can do with a piece of equipment, the learner is learning what the monster can do innately.

I have even considered the possibility of needing to set some monster abilities with an arbitrary spell slot cost - an idea I'm not particularly fond of, but I'd do it, if the rest of the system worked. And I honestly think it does.

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Basically, it comes down to two choices...

1) Use the formulaic system as it stands, possibly with a degree of modification. Put in the appropriate restrictions on what can and cannot be learned, then set the spell slot cost of blue spells which would be broken using the system.

This has the advantage of being easily adapted to new monsters, as well as keeping the flavor of the learner through the mechanics; however, it will be slightly unwieldy in comparison to the simple direct-to-level system, and has to set some spell slot costs arbitrarily.

2) Go through the SRD and assign a spell level to each Su and learnable Sp ability. This is the easiest way to solve the broken spell problems.

This has the advantage of everything being spelled out, no questions asked, and also allows it to work nicely within the spell system as it stands; however, it means that any new monster will have to have its abilities set with blue spells and how they function as blue spells, as well as a loss of a degree of flavor.
 

GnomeWorks said:
...require an item that is not part of the monster's natural anatomy (a lantern archon's trumpet, a grig's otto's irresistable dance), then the learner cannot use the spell.

The issue of those items occured to me as well. However, instead of banning those abilities, I'd just make the item a Focus component for the Blue spell.

And will you come back by the 'Hunt for the Cirya'? We miss you...
 
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Pyrex said:
The issue of those items occured to me as well. However, instead of banning those abilities, I'd just make the item a Focus component for the Blue spell.

That might work, but I'm a little wary of doing that. Would it have to be the monster's item, or just an item similar to it?

And will you come back by the 'Hunt for the Cirya'? We miss you...

Updated! :)
 
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How about using the formula as a guideline for those of us willing to help you out with going through the SRD (which I would be up to). That way when new monsters are added there are guidelines that will fit for most things with judge/dm approval.
 

GnomeWorks said:
That might work, but I'm a little wary of doing that. Would it have to be the monster's item, or just an item similar to it?

I was thinking it'd have to be the monsters item. To use a night hag's nightmare power you need a night hag's Heartstone. etc, etc.
 

Erekose - that would work, if we go that route.

Pyrex - that would make sense to me. It makes using the grig's dance ability a little more difficult, perhaps (unless you kill the grig holding it, at which point it's somewhat moot).

Really what I was trying to do with the item thing, was to eliminate the grig problem.

Also, another idea - what if we remove the ability to learn Sp abilities that are spells? I mean, some Sp abilities are italicized, indicating that they work almost exactly like a spell. Perhaps we remove those abilities from what can be learned?
 


Okay - what if we just go with the formula, then sift through the SRD and assign fixed spell slot costs to the ones that would be broken?
 

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