(Proposal) Learner Prestige Class

[GnomeWorks]

Wizards can't become learners; or, at least, straight wizards cannot.

To be a learner, you have to be able to spontaneously cast at least 2nd level spells.

As for a sorcerer knowing a blue spell of a level higher than he can cast... he just can't cast it. Knowledge of blue spells exists outside of the standard system: a learner can know a number of blue spells equal to his learner level + intelligence (score, not mod), regardless of level.

 

[GnomeWorks]

We've cleared before that class abilities cannot be learned. Maybe it should be reflected by a comment that only inherent abilities can be learned.

That would be a good idea.

I would assume that the time to learn DR (or any defensive Su ability) is when the creature is hit.

In order to learn the ability, the learner has to see it being used... so, yes, to learn a DR ability you'd have to hit the creature to see the DR come into effect.

Does the Lore ability of the Learner stack with the abilities of bards or loremasters?

Um... no? If you have Learner Lore and Bardic Lore, they're two different abilities. You don't get Learner Lore bonuses to your Bardic Lore, or vice versa.

Does that answer your question?

That said, I vote Yes for the learner.

I'm guessing we're not going to count Macbeth's vote, back on the first or second page, since that was several versions ago?

Alright, so now that it has one vote, it only needs two more to become official, correct?

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

Alright, so now that it has one vote, it only needs two more to become official, correct?

Barring three nos, that is.

I'll take a look at this and comment. Just not right now. (Mmm, sleep).

 

[Creamsteak]

I'm extending this one's time at the top for an extra day for now. It's a difficult one to just vote on, since it has so much to it.

 

[Knight Otu]

Does that answer your question?

Yes, and it is what I expected.

 

[Creamsteak]

Alright, I'm pulling this off the list, but I'm adding a reluctant Yes to the proposal.

I think that the entire content about the term Blue Mage needs to be changed or omitted. It just doesn't feel right. But the concept of a Learner Mage is a neat one and could add a lot to our world, if handled carefully and exactly. However, before anyone takes levels in it, I'd like to put some more work in on it myself (I know, I keep promising and then leaving you be. I'm sincerely sorry about that.) I think I can help make this a solid prestige class that really does allow a character to learn from monsters.

It's still "slightly" video gamy in current form. I'd like to tone that down a bit. That said, I still give this class my reluctant (above mentioned concerns) yes vote. But I'm pulling it off the list for now so we can work on another subject.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Alright, I'm pulling this off the list, but I'm adding a reluctant Yes to the proposal.

That's two...

I think that the entire content about the term Blue Mage needs to be changed or omitted. It just doesn't feel right. But the concept of a Learner Mage is a neat one and could add a lot to our world, if handled carefully and exactly.

I liked the term 'Blue Mage' because it gave the spells a common name. We could call it 'Monster Magic', but there's just something corny about that.

However, before anyone takes levels in it, I'd like to put some more work in on it myself (I know, I keep promising and then leaving you be. I'm sincerely sorry about that.) I think I can help make this a solid prestige class that really does allow a character to learn from monsters.

Well, chances are such that no one is going to take levels in it anytime soon, so we have awhile to work out the kinks.

As for promising help and then disappearing... don't worry about it. Life happens.

It's still "slightly" video gamy in current form. I'd like to tone that down a bit. That said, I still give this class my reluctant (above mentioned concerns) yes vote. But I'm pulling it off the list for now so we can work on another subject.

I know it's still slightly "video game-y", but if you feel that we could reduce that feeling while still keeping true to the idea (and not slaughtering it to bits ), I probably won't have an issue with it.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Still a vote shy...

 

[GnomeWorks]

This would be a bump.

CS - if you have the time, please take a look at this and recommend those changes you talked about. Or something. But I'd rather not let this die, not after so many revisions.

 

[GnomeWorks]

The Fix!

I was pondering this class again today. I was still irked by the whole "tie each ability to a spell level" thing, and I've been trying to find ways around it that maintain balance (read: make Quickness and the grig's Fiddle not so broken as blue spells).

And then, it hit me...

Everything is based off Charisma, right? So why not base the spell slot cost off of that?

It makes perfect sense, really.

Essentially, you take the monster's Charisma score and subtract the (learner's learner level - 1). If this number is higher than the monster's CR, it becomes the spell slot cost.

This way, crazy things like the choker's Quickness and the grig's Fiddle abilities become much less broken.

For example, a 1st-level learner who gets Quickness has to expend 7 spell levels, rather than 2. It will hit 2 eventually, but by then the learner will be 5th level, and probably be 10th-12th level - and if they're getting an additional move or standard action at this point, so? At this level, I don't think an extra action will be that big of a deal...

So this is the order in which the spell level slot cost is determined.

CR
The base cost is the creature's CR.

Charisma
If the monster's Charisma score is higher than it's CR, the spell slot cost becomes the monster's Charisma score - (learner level - 1), with a minimum of it's CR.

Caster Level
If the monster's ability has a caster level associated with it, the spell slot cost of the ability becomes (caster level - learner's learner level), with a minimum of it's CR.

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This is just a rough idea, like the original spell slot cost idea. Please comment on this - I need some feedback!