Psion as Wizard archetype − Happy Fun Hour

Yaarel

Adventurer
There's a negative connotation to Sorcerer or Sorcery, today, because it's used to refer to, in effect (and among other things), con men, who bilk the superstitious by claiming magical powers, too.
But, yes, the definition does imply dealing with spirits, to gain secrets known to them, including magical powers, and to have them do your bidding. The D&D Warlock is closer to a Sorcerer, in concept, though the mechanics still don't much model actually dealing with spirits. Something more like an RQII Shaman, really, would model a dictionary-definition Sorcerer.

Mutant - in the Marvel sense - would almost be more accurate. ;)

Anyway, name aside, the 5e Sorcerer's schtick is, indeed, /magical/ power from within, and that makes it a better candidate for faux-psionicist than wizard, hands down.

While psionics is inevitably supernatural in nature, whether psionics is magical is something that should be left to the DM - and prettymuch requires a new class to package it. Some might prefer the theoretically more consistent 'balance' of keeping the psionic tamped down by the same measures as other casters (Beholder's and anti-magic zones and whatnot), or just the unifying concept that in the fantasy genre the supernatural /is/ magical, while others might prefer adding to the range of supernatural abilities the game models.
Personally, I like the spontaneous wizard as the psion. It puts the finger on what the 3e psion is.

Aside from the wizard, I can stomach the bard as a chassis for the psion subclass, better than the sorcerer. Add a suite of telekinetic force spells to the bard list, and the bard makes a fine psion.

(The bard also makes a pretty good shaman.)
 

Yaarel

Adventurer
Every official spell in D&D can organize into one of the four themes. I have been using these four themes for years now. But it looks like PF2 is considering adopting these four.

Spirit (force, telekinesis, light, void, ether, aster, planar travel, teleportation, space-time)
Mind (charm, fear, suggestion, illusion, domination, divination)
Body (life, healing, nature, beast, plant, poison)
Matter (mainly the four elements: air-water and fire-earth)

These four themes permute to create an interesting contrast among six full caster classes.

Wizard: Mind + Matter
Cleric: Spirit + Body

Psion: Mind + Spirit
Druid: Body + Matter

Bard: Mind + Body
Artificer (Alchemist): Matter + Spirit



The above is a strict division of flavor. For example, there would be no psion of Body/psychometabolism − use a psionic bard for Body. A bard makes a good psychic healer. Likewise there would be no psion of Matter/pyrokinesis − use a psionic wizard (or sorcerer?) to telekinese fire, earth, or air, water.

But the division of flavor also means there would be no wizard with Spirit/planar travel or teleportation, nor Spirit/force effects like Magic Missile or Wall of Force or Telekinesis or Fly.

Despite the restrictions, the division creates spell casters with distinctive flavors that make sense for the class.
 
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Wyvern

Visitor
I think part of the problem with psions, why many people feel they're "too sci-fi", is the name. After all, the term was originally coined by a science fiction author, was it not? But if you call them psychics, then they don't really sound science-fictiony at all. Or, if you think giving a class the same name as one of the damage types is a bad idea, "mentalist" works pretty well too.

"Mystic" is... okay, but it's a pretty broad term that doesn't, to me, particularly connote powers of the mind. If anything, I think of a mystic as being more like a quasi-cleric -- not someone who finds power within, but someone who communes with the divine/the spirits/the universe. In real life, "mysticism" is used to refer to practices like Kabbalah, Sufism, Shinto, etc..

I would vastly prefer making psionics as a subclass to the wizard, sorcerer, and monk than the Awakened Mystic and whole new magic system it brings with it.
I'm okay with having battleminds and soulknives as subclasses of fighter and rogue, but I think there's room for a full-fledged psychic class too. I'm not in favor of making it simply a subclass of wizard or sorcerer, except as a stop-gap measure while waiting for WotC to come out with something official.

...it would avoid having to re-build the wheel with a separate magic system when D&D already has a darn good one.
But they kind of already did that with the warlock. Personally, I've never understood the rationale for giving warlocks a very limited number of spell slots and a bunch of unique abilities, instead of simply giving them a full spellcasting progression and then layering the pact and patron abilities on top to keep them distinct from wizards or sorcerers. (But that's a topic for another day.)

However, now that I think about it, the warlock is a great model for how I think psychics should work. Not in terms of flavor, but in terms of mechanics. In the fiction, psychics generally have a handful of abilities at most, not swiss-army-knife powers like a wizard.

I also don't think power points really model the fiction very well either. You don't see psychics in the stories draining their powers... except perhaps in the sense of over-taxing themselves by pushing their abilities to the limit, but that's something that could be modeled perfectly well using levels of exhaustion. In fact, that in itself would give psychics a unique flavor without having to introduce a whole new system.

So like I said, if I were creating a psychic class, I'd give them at-will disciplines (equivalent to eldritch invocations), and a limited number of spell slots, with a unique spell list for each Path. (I prefer "Path" to "Order" because I don't think psychics should be assumed to belong to organized groups.)

- Path of the Mind would cover telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition, psychometry, and mediumship. Its disciplines would be organized in chains, so you could choose between dabbling in several different abilities, or specializing in one and gaining access to the more powerful disciplines like astral projection and mental domination.

- Path of the Body would be psychometabolism. Not the flashy stuff like shaping your hands into claws -- again, I don't think that fits the fiction -- but the sort of thing Hindu yogis are purported to be capable of -- firewalking, death trances, self-healing and so forth. To some extent it overlaps with a monk's abilities, but I think there's still room for both to be distinct if you put less emphasis on combat and more on self-perfection. Disciplines that healed others would also be available as an option.

- Path of the Weave, so-called because its disciplines affect the external world rather than the self, covers psychokinetic powers. (I'm open to suggestions for alternative names.) Choose one type of energy (fire, cold, force, maybe lightning), each of which comes with its own unique set of disciplines to pick from.

(For the record, I don't really think teleportation is a particularly "psychic" ability.)

I'm okay with crystals being associated with psychics, as long as they're portrayed less in a science-fictiony way and more in a New-Agey way. (No weird stuff like crystal wands, mind you, just basic stones worn in pendants.) I don't think they should be mandatory, but a crystal focus might give you special benefits like advantage on checks when using your powers, or the ability to push yourself without exhaustion. Might require attunement to gain the benefits.

Most of these are ideas I just came up with today after reading this thread, so I'm spitballing here. But that's how I'd approach it, if it were up to me.


There's a negative connotation to Sorcerer or Sorcery, today, because it's used to refer to, in effect (and among other things), con men, who bilk the superstitious by claiming magical powers, too.
Really? I've never heard it used that way. Can you link to any examples?

Wyvern
 
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LuisCarlos17f

Adventurer
For me mind-affecting psionic powers can be resisted with defenses against mind-affecting magic, and elemental damage by psionic disciplines can be neutralice by standard magic defenses against elemental damage resistance.

Casting spells is harder if the wizard can't speak or move, but psionic manifesters only need concentration, don't they?

And we need psionic powers if we want the return of Dark Sun setting.

* I dare to say we may see in the future subclasses to introduce new game mechanics.

* It is curious, I don't miss too much the lurker class from the Complete Psionic, but there was a great potential for the psionic ardent/divine mind, to create stories about potential conflicts with the clerics and other divine spellcasters. (Other idea is the favored soul like a spontaneous divine spellcaster with subclasses about monster templates (half-dragon, half-infernal, half-fey, half-celestial...).
 

Hexmage-EN

Explorer
However, now that I think about it, the warlock is a great model for how I think psychics should work. Not in terms of flavor, but in terms of mechanics. In the fiction, psychics generally have a handful of abilities at most, not swiss-army-knife powers like a wizard.
Thinking on this I wholeheartedly agree that it makes a good mechanical fit. As for flavor, you could say that Psionic Warlocks have a pact with an embodiment of the collective consciousnesses of the Material Plane that resides in the Astral Plane that they may not even be aware of making. The pact could have been made in a half-remembered dream.
 

SkidAce

Adventurer
Really? I've never heard it used that way. Can you link to any examples?

Wyvern
Could be an age thing.

Don't have a specific source atm, but my basic/1st/2nd edition games had sorcery as the evil fiend summoning magic.

World Setting: Magic "okay", Sorcery "bad".

Niavin the evil sorcerer was an ongoing NPC, a party wizard learned a sorcerey spell and was flirting with darkness.



As a result of so many years of "legacy fluff" on my part...I had to but a line in my house rule doc stating:

Alfaysian Characters said:
Sorcerers and Adepts

A clarification on magic in this campaign. Magic is magic. It may have a divine, or arcane, or even nature style flavor, but its magic.

Its the source that matters. Clerics are given access to magic power via a link with their deity, gained when consecrated or devout enough. Mages study it and manipulate it.

Adepts (think sorcerers) are those whose power comes from a spark within, or a bloodline that taps into magic. Their ability to use magic is innate. so you can have divine “sorcerers”, arcane sorcerers, fire sorcerers etc, except this campaign calls them adepts or channelers.

This reduces the number of classes pervading the system. we don’t need the 3.5 favored soul (basically a divine sorcerer) or beguiler (charm sorcerer). Just use the sorcerer class and adjust the spell list. Nice and neat.

Oh and the reason for not using the name sorcerer? Because before WoTC started using it to denote a different type of wizard, I was using the term sorcerer for summoners that dealt with demons or devils (like since 1st edition!).

So I’m going back to that.
 

SkidAce

Adventurer
Thinking on this I wholeheartedly agree that it makes a good mechanical fit. As for flavor, you could say that Psionic Warlocks have a pact with an embodiment of the collective consciousnesses of the Material Plane that resides in the Astral Plane that they may not even be aware of making. The pact could have been made in a half-remembered dream.
I also like the warlock mechanical fit.

Would leave out any mention of a pact however, but "tapping into the collective" is a fantastic idea.

Whatever we sub for the word "Pact" could be a way to determine the psions "discipline", and associated benefits.
 

Wyvern

Visitor
Thinking on this I wholeheartedly agree that it makes a good mechanical fit. As for flavor, you could say that Psionic Warlocks have a pact with an embodiment of the collective consciousnesses of the Material Plane that resides in the Astral Plane that they may not even be aware of making. The pact could have been made in a half-remembered dream.
My hypothetical psychic class wouldn't have any reference to pacts -- when I said I'd model it on the warlock I simply meant that I'd give them a short list of spells and a selection of at-will abilities (changing the name from "invocations" to "disciplines" or "talents") that may or may not be spell-like, as opposed to all-spells-all-the-time. The pact benefits would be replaced by something specific to the Path they follow.

(Which is not to say a reskinned warlock couldn't serve as a stop-gap solution, just as a reskinned wizard or sorcerer could. In fact, I think it would work better, for the reasons I outlined above.)


Don't have a specific source atm, but my basic/1st/2nd edition games had sorcery as the evil fiend summoning magic.

World Setting: Magic "okay", Sorcery "bad".

Niavin the evil sorcerer was an ongoing NPC, a party wizard learned a sorcerey spell and was flirting with darkness.
That's not what I was asking about. I'm well aware that, when it's not simply used as a straight synonym for "wizard" (as in The Sorcerer's Apprentice, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone), it has connotations of evilness. Dictionary.com defines sorcery as "the art, practices, or spells of a person who is supposed to exercise supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery". And in "sword & sorcery" fiction -- which was a major influence on the early editions of D&D you're talking about -- the sorcerers are usually the villains. My question was regarding Tony Vargas' assertion that in real-life, "sorcerer" is used to refer to "con men, who bilk the superstitious by claiming magical powers". I've never heard it used *that* way. The word I'd use to describe such a person is, well, "psychic".
 
I think part of the problem with psions, why many people feel they're "too sci-fi", is the name. After all, the term was originally coined by a science fiction author, was it not?
John W. Campbell, c1952. He proposed the term to mean something 'engineering applied to powers of the mind' (the 'enhancing psychic powers with electronics' definition is closer to psychotronics, but that gets really weird...).

And, yes, 'psionic' was coined by adding 'psi' + the '-onics' ending (lifted from electronics) that, in the 50s, had buzz comparable to '.com' in the 90s, having supplanted '-ola' as the ending you pasted on something to make it sound cool & modern (about the only examples that may ring a bell, today would be Motorola and granola).
But if you call them psychics, then they don't really sound science-fictiony at all. Or, if you think giving a class the same name as one of the damage types is a bad idea, "mentalist" works pretty well too.
Psychic were coined (or rather adopted into English) in the later 19th century, with the rise in popularity of the mediums and Theosophy (actually, a lot of pop-culture, and thus D&D, ideas of the supernatural were influenced by Theosophy).

"Mystic" is... okay, but it's a pretty broad term that doesn't, to me, particularly connote powers of the mind. If anything, I think of a mystic as being more like a quasi-cleric -- not someone who finds power within, but someone who communes with the divine/the spirits/the universe. In real life, "mysticism" is used to refer to practices like Kabbalah, Sufism, Shinto, etc..
It's at least an older word. ;)


I'm okay with having battleminds and soulknives as subclasses of fighter and rogue, but I think there's room for a full-fledged psychic class too. I'm not in favor of making it simply a subclass of wizard or sorcerer, except as a stop-gap measure while waiting for WotC to come out with something official.
They Mystic's been on UA quite a while, I don't understand the point of a 'top gap' that's every bit as unofficial... ??

However, now that I think about it, the warlock is a great model for how I think psychics should work. Not in terms of flavor, but in terms of mechanics. In the fiction, psychics generally have a handful of abilities at most, not swiss-army-knife powers like a wizard.
Warlock's mechanics are pretty decent - not as over the top complicated and counter-genre as most D&D spellcasting, not as sadly limited and counter-genre as non-casters.

(wow, that sounded harsher than intended, but I can't think how to get the idea across while sounding nice...)

I also don't think power points really model the fiction very well either. You don't see psychics in the stories draining their powers... except perhaps in the sense of over-taxing themselves by pushing their abilities to the limit
It seems pretty common in fiction that a psychic with overt powers like TK or mind control, has to put forth intense effort or concentration and can wear themselves out or even injure themselves in the process.

(For the record, I don't really think teleportation is a particularly "psychic" ability.)
Teleportation, Aportation, and Dematerialization were powers claimed by or attributed to mentalists - and the more mystic-spouting stage magicians, for that matter - again, back in the 19th century. All of them have been in D&D a long while, Teleportation, obviously, with a spell of that name, Aportation in Daern's Instant Summons and Leomund's Secret Chest among others, and Dematerialization in Passwall, (stretching the point a bit, Etherealness), and later qualities like insubstantial or phasing.

Really? I've never heard it used that way. Can you link to any examples?
Google Sorcerer and, thanks to Sorcerer's Stone and some video games, you won't find any examples in the fist page. throw in 'superstition,' you might start finding some, they're often not from the most savory sources, either.


Casting spells is harder if the wizard can't speak or move, but psionic manifesters only need concentration, don't they?
I think that's a fairly standard vision, yes. Though, it's worth noting that in prior eds, 'concentration' was required for spellcasting as well as components, while in 5e, only a sub-set of spells require concentration, and while all such limitations are toned down from the olden days, it's a more significant limitation than components, which are barely a meaningful limit at all anymore.

So a 5e Psion that had to Concentrate to use any of it's powers would be more limited than a 5e caster, not less.
 
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Wyvern

Visitor
They Mystic's been on UA quite a while, I don't understand the point of a 'top gap' that's every bit as unofficial... ??
Well, I was responding to the suggestions other people had made that psions/mystics/psychics/whatever should be a subclass of wizard or some other existing class. Presumably the people who made those suggestions aren't satisfied with the UA mystic class. All I'm saying is, I'd rather have a full-fledged psychic class -- whether it's like the UA mystic or something different -- than to have psychic powers be relegated entirely to subclasses. But if I wanted a psychic class right now and I (or the DM) wasn't happy with the mystic for whatever reason, then I could get by with a wizard or sorcerer that specialized in mind-affecting spells.

It seems pretty common in fiction that a psychic with overt powers like TK or mind control, has to put forth intense effort or concentration and can wear themselves out or even injure themselves in the process.
Hence my suggestion of using levels of exhaustion. It has the dual advantage of being a rule that already exists, while at the same time isn't utilized by any of the other flavors of spellcaster, which would give psychics a unique feel.

Teleportation, Aportation, and Dematerialization were powers claimed by or attributed to mentalists - and the more mystic-spouting stage magicians, for that matter - again, back in the 19th century. All of them have been in D&D a long while, Teleportation, obviously, with a spell of that name, Aportation in Daern's Instant Summons and Leomund's Secret Chest among others, and Dematerialization in Passwall, (stretching the point a bit, Etherealness), and later qualities like insubstantial or phasing.
Sure, there are lots of spells that allow for that sort of thing, but what I'm saying is that I don't equate "psychic" with "someone who can teleport". If you say there's historical precedent, I'll take your word for it -- though I don't think stage magicians really count. While there may be conceptual overlap between the two (a lot of stage magicians do mind-reading tricks, obviously), magicians have plenty of tricks in their repertoire that I wouldn't consider "psychic powers".

If you *were* to include psychoportation, within the framework of the three Paths I outlined, do you think it fits better with the Path of the Body or the Path of the Weave?


throw in 'superstition,' you might start finding some, they're often not from the most savory sources, either.
Okay, I Googled "sorcery superstition" like you suggested, and just glancing at the results, I think I get what you mean. You're talking about something like the archetypal "witch doctor" right? When you wrote "con man" my mind went to "street hustler", and that's what confused me.

Wyvern
 

Yaarel

Adventurer
It is important to me, the psion be a full caster. There archetypes of psychics who wield high level powers. For example, the level 9 Wish spell − focusing on a desire and making it reality − is the purest form of mental exertion.

Wizard mechanics guarantee full casting. I am concerned warlock mechanics lacks at high levels. Similarly, the current design for the mystic class lacks at high levels.
 
Well, I was responding to the suggestions other people had made that psions/mystics/psychics/whatever should be a subclass of wizard or some other existing class. Presumably the people who made those suggestions aren't satisfied with the UA mystic class.
"Make it a sub-class" is often a suggestion you hear from the other side of the discussion, entirely, not those who want psionics but are unhappy with the Mystic, but those who don't want psionics, at all.

All I'm saying is, I'd rather have a full-fledged psychic class -- whether it's like the UA mystic or something different -- than to have psychic powers be relegated entirely to subclasses. But if I wanted a psychic class right now and I (or the DM) wasn't happy with the mystic for whatever reason, then I could get by with a wizard or sorcerer that specialized in mind-affecting spells.
OK, not really see'n it, myself, but if that's how you feel.

Hence my suggestion of using levels of exhaustion. It has the dual advantage of being a rule that already exists, while at the same time isn't utilized by any of the other flavors of spellcaster, which would give psychics a unique feel.
Exhaustion is a pretty heavy mechanic for limiting something as diverse and often-manifested as psionic powers.

Sure, there are lots of spells that allow for that sort of thing, but what I'm saying is that I don't equate "psychic" with "someone who can teleport". If you say there's historical precedent, I'll take your word for it --
Double-checking, I was wrong in two out of three of those. Teleportation & Aportation are both younger than I thought. Dematerialization, though, I was correct about. ;)
 

Kobold Avenger

Adventurer
Sure, there are lots of spells that allow for that sort of thing, but what I'm saying is that I don't equate "psychic" with "someone who can teleport". If you say there's historical precedent, I'll take your word for it -- though I don't think stage magicians really count. While there may be conceptual overlap between the two (a lot of stage magicians do mind-reading tricks, obviously), magicians have plenty of tricks in their repertoire that I wouldn't consider "psychic powers".
I think some of the inspiration for what Psionics can do in D&D is based on what Yogis could do...

The wiki entry on Siddhis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi
 

Yaarel

Adventurer
Double-checking, I was wrong in two out of three of those. Teleportation & Aportation are both younger than I thought. Dematerialization, though, I was correct about. ;)
Actually, teleportation is an aspect of Norse psionics. The texts describe it as ‘traveling at the speed of thought’. So, it exemplifies a concept that exists during the Viking Era, circa 800-1100.

The psionic phenomenon of teleportation is essentially an aspect of animism. The psychic presence (of a human, a rock, a sunbeam, a tree, a river, an animal, etcetera) projects outofbody (or sotospeak, out-of-rock, out-of-sunbeam). This means of remote presence can manifest ghost-like with a telekinetic force or influence. Normally, this projection results in bilocation where the physical body and the mental identity are in two locations. However a strong mental identity can actually alter the physical body to pull it into the new location where the mental projection is.
 

Wyvern

Visitor
OK, not really see'n it, myself, but if that's how you feel.
I'm not sure what it is that you think I feel, but I get the sense that you've misunderstood me. Or maybe I've misunderstood you. Or both. Either way, it seems like we're talking at cross-purposes here. Let me see if I can clear it up. When I mentioned making psychics a subclass of wizard or whatever, that wasn't *my* idea. It's what *other* people had suggested, starting with the OP. If you want to know why they suggested it, you should ask them, not me.

What *I* was saying was not that I *want* psychics to be a subclass of wizard, but that I would be willing to settle for that until we get something official. (Not that I'm actually planning on playing a psychic character in the foreseeable future; I'm speaking hypothetically here.) And for the record, I've only skimmed the rules for the UA mystic, not examined them in-depth, so I don't really have an opinion on them one way or the other.


Exhaustion is a pretty heavy mechanic for limiting something as diverse and often-manifested as psionic powers.
I wasn't suggesting it as consequence every time you use your psychic abilities -- only when you push yourself beyond your normal limits.

Dematerialization, though, I was correct about. ;)
Sure, I can see dematerialization as a high-level discipline in the Path of the Body. OTOH, astral projection (which seems to be more-or-less what Yaarel is describing in the post above mine) would be a high-level discipline in the spirit medium branch of the Path of the Mind.


I think some of the inspiration for what Psionics can do in D&D is based on what Yogis could do...

The wiki entry on Siddhis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi
Absolutely, I even made reference to that in my description of the Path of the Body. Though I wasn't familiar with the term "siddhi", so thanks for that link.

Wyvern
 
What *I* was saying was not that I *want* psychics to be a subclass of wizard, but that I would be willing to settle for that until we get something official. (Not that I'm actually planning on playing a psychic character in the foreseeable future; I'm speaking hypothetically here.) And for the record, I've only skimmed the rules for the UA mystic, not examined them in-depth, so I don't really have an opinion on them one way or the other.
Which is reasonable enough.

I'm used to seeing the sub-class option presented as an alternative rather than as a supplemental arrangement.

I also feel like they've had plenty of time to get the Mystic right and just release it already. It shouldn't be a gap that need stopping, at this point.

I wasn't suggesting it as consequence every time you use your psychic abilities -- only when you push yourself beyond your normal limits.
So other than that, at will?
 

Wyvern

Visitor
We were talking about the coining of the English word, 'teleportation.'
Were you? I didn't realize that. I was just talking about the *concept*.

Supernatural beings have been appearing from nowhere forever, I assume. ;)
The question (the one *I'm* asking, anyway) is not whether there's fictional or mythical precedent for teleportation, but whether it would be thought of as a specifically *psychic* power as opposed to simply *magic*. And while mental powers may very well be a good way of representing of Norse magic (I wouldn't know), I would contend that Norse magic is not what the average person associates with the words "psychic" or "psion". (That doesn't mean I'm trying to prevent anyone from making a psychic character that's outside of the norm -- only that I don't think those sorts of concepts should be the touchstone we use when designing the class.)

Wyvern
 

Wyvern

Visitor
So other than that, at will?
I envision *most* disciplines being useable at-will, yes. With the option of being able to attempt disciplines that are either at or just above the limit of what you're capable of at the cost of exhaustion (which could possibly be mitigated if you're attuned to a crystal focus). If we follow the warlock model, your psychic would also have a small selection of spells that they can cast a limited number of times per day.

Or you could make everything an at-will ability, though that would require more design work to get the balance right since it departs further from any existing model. I'm not opposed to that either. What I *don't* really want to see, at least as a long-term solution, is an "all-spells-all-the-time" psychic. (If I just want to play a mind-mage, the enchanter already fills that niche; there's no need to create a new wizard archetype and slap a "psionic" label on it.)

Wyvern
 

Yaarel

Adventurer
Sure, I can see dematerialization as a high-level discipline in the Path of the Body. OTOH, astral projection (which seems to be more-or-less what Yaarel is describing in the post above mine) would be a high-level discipline in the spirit medium branch of the Path of the Mind.
All of the psionic concepts interconnect with eachother. For example, mental projection (Spirit telekinesis) results in clairvoyance (Mind divination). It is impossible to really separate one concept from the other. When clustering the effects into tropes, projecting ones mind outofbody correlates better with the path of Spirit, including the mental ‘force’ to relocate, thus teleport the body.

Outofbody differs from Astral Projection. The Astral Plane is a separate plane. By contrast, the outofbody mental projection travels thru the physical world, and can perceive and affect it. In D&D terms, it is more like ‘Ethereal Projection’, where the Ethereal Plane overlays the Material Plane.
 

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