Psion power balance questions

[Scion]

If it is not acceptable to your group that some abilities are 'up to x' and others are simply 'x' then there will be problems in other parts of the rules.

What if I want an ability that normally lasts 10 minutes to only last 5 minutes? Aside from useing a lower level of ability (caster/manifestor level) certain abilities have the (d) descriptor to say that you can use an action to end them early. Otherwise they go for their full duration.

A place where limiting being a potential problem would be with the psionic delay feat. You can choose to make it explode in 5 rounds or with some other conditions, but you do not get to choose 'up to 5 rounds', it is merely 5 or some other condition. Which means that if you have something like time stop you cannot put a bunch of delayed area of effects and have them all go off at once because you said 5 rounds for the first and 4 rounds for the second, etc.

In this case the areas are what they are. If it says 'X' (whether X is level based or not) instead of 'up to x' then that is what it means.

Doing otherwise can, and likely will, effect the overall power of various abilities.


As apparently you yourself have seen.

 

[Nail]

Another note: The Psion in our game is Psi 16 and has a Concentrations score of +40. One of his items (a "third eye) gives him a +10 to his check; much of the rest comes from items that increase Con.....which is hardly a wasted stat, or one that has no other use.

 

[Nail]

As apparently you yourself have seen.

Indeed. Still, the "rules" ground is weak....as so few other "problems" come from this.

Seriously: anything else?

 

[Scion]

Another note: The Psion in our game is Psi 16 and has a Concentrations score of +40. One of his items (a "third eye) gives him a +10 to his check; much of the rest comes from items that increase Con.....which is hardly a wasted stat, or one that has no other use.

Maybe I am missing something..
19 ranks in concentration
+10 concentration from goggles
+11 con mod?
= +40

Pretty impressive!

But psicraft is needed to penetrate the sphere.
So that means that he also has
19 ranks in psicraft
+11 from int
= +30 needed to always succeed in penetrating the sphere.

This guy has some pretty impressive stats there!

 

[Videssian]

Maybe I am missing something..
19 ranks in concentration
+10 concentration from goggles
+11 con mod?
= +40

Pretty impressive!

But psicraft is needed to penetrate the sphere.
So that means that he also has
19 ranks in psicraft
+11 from int
= +30 needed to always succeed in penetrating the sphere.

This guy has some pretty impressive stats there!

Why thank you! *grins* (I'm playing the psion in question)

Note that this game is largely a "hack and slash, weak story" type of campaign, where min-maxing and playing around with high-level stuff and outwitting the DM is all part of the fun.. so I'm trying things that I wouldn't normally do in a more serious game

Psicraft is +32... and you're right, the stat IS high.. That's partly to thank from a nice result from a "Deck of Many Things".. *grins*

 

[LokiDR]

I do think that the hubbub over psychic reformation is overdone. I had an NPC in the party that offered to use the ability for the players, and it did not have a negative effect on play.

In this case, there is no balance issue since everyone has equal access. If the psion didn't want to blow his XP to maximize a different character for their current level, the psion could always be more optimized for the level, hence more powerful.

But, the "wall of force" created in a telekinetic sphere is BETTER than this. Not only does it block spells that require line of effect and physical movement like a normal wall of force, it blocks ALL spells including those that allow extradimensional travel. This seems to imply that this isn't just a "wall of force" but is in effect something much more powerful. I envision it as a 2-dimensional spherical surface shaped anti-magic field sandwhiched between two spherical walls of force, the inner of which is also subject to a Dimensional Lock. At the very least, the DC for burrowing a power through this should be a whole heck of a lot higher than 31, and might simply be impossible depending on how you want to explain how the spell actually works.

I'm not sure where you get this idea. The base spell is Resilient Sphere, which only says "Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out, though the subject can breathe normally." If I were going to interpret this, I would use the more complete description from Wall of Force:

Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through the wall in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier. It blocks ethereal creatures as well as material ones (though ethereal creatures can usually get around the wall by floating under or over it through material floors and ceilings).

Hence, you can teleport/dimention door into and out of the sphere.


I think there is an additional power to the Psionic Telekinetic Sphere. It makes everything weigh significantly less. There is no reason to believe it can't be physically moved, from the outside or the inside. If that psion has manifested Psionic Fly, this becomes a very large hampster ball. This solves a lot of movement issues.


However, I think there are a lot of ways for the DM to realistically rule/plan to keep this from being abusive. The first would be knocking the sphere around like a giant beach ball. I imagine some giants have a lot of fun with this. Even with fly, you could be knocked out of range or even knocked around in the sphere. I can't hit you, but I can hit the sphere into you. Think child in dryer.

A simpler solution, however, would be to rule the sphere blocks line of sight. Where Wall of Force says specifically it is invisible and gaze attacks work through it, Resilient Sphere says it creates a "globe of shimmering force". Shimmering isn't the same as invisible. A DM should be well within their rights to kill line of sight, which kills direct use of Burrowing Power. He could use Clairvoyant Sense if he has access to the power and has taken it. Even then, Clairvoyant Sense has its own limitations, like a fixed point of reference.

If the combo is abusive, the DM has valid interpretations of the rules to make it less so. If it is still too abusive, the DM can house rule. It shouldn't be allowed to make the game less fun.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Another note: The Psion in our game is Psi 16 and has a Concentrations score of +40. One of his items (a "third eye) gives him a +10 to his check; much of the rest comes from items that increase Con.....which is hardly a wasted stat, or one that has no other use.

Actually, it doesn't have much use if he's spending all his time hiding in the sphere from foes who don't have the means to attack him there.

(Though, come to think of it, another really nasty technique for getting him just occured to me: use burrowing power on an NPC to put an astral construct in the sphere with him.)

 

[helium3]

Why thank you! *grins* (I'm playing the psion in question)

Note that this game is largely a "hack and slash, weak story" type of campaign, where min-maxing and playing around with high-level stuff and outwitting the DM is all part of the fun.. so I'm trying things that I wouldn't normally do in a more serious game

Psicraft is +32... and you're right, the stat IS high.. That's partly to thank from a nice result from a "Deck of Many Things".. *grins*

So what's your DM complaining about? Or is it another player?

 

[helium3]

I'm not sure where you get this idea. The base spell is Resilient Sphere, which only says "Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out, though the subject can breathe normally."

My group's interpretation of the spell is that it literally prevents the passage of anything, including all spells, in the manner that I described in my post. I was assuming that this was the default understanding of how the two spells worked. Perhaps I was wrong. If so, then the DM really has NO grounds to be claiming that he can't touch touch the Psion and that the combo is overpowered. See, there's this spell called Acid Fog, and this other one called Mind Fog. And there's that spell that allows you to summon creatures, even on the other side of walls of force. Oh yeah, and don't forget Cloud Kill and Destruction. If the telekinetic sphere only blocks spells that require line of effect and physical movement there are SO MANY OPTIONS, even at low levels.

Oh wait, I see what you're saying. You're interpreting the description of wall of force to imply that a Wall of Force blocks all spells, even those that don't require line of effect? Weird. I don't think our group ever used Wall of Force like that. We only had it block line of effect spells, since allowing it to block line of sight spells never made much sense to us. If that's the case, I can understand your argument.

 

[Plane Sailing]

My group's interpretation of the spell is that it literally prevents the passage of anything, including all spells, in the manner that I described in my post. I was assuming that this was the default understanding of how the two spells worked. Perhaps I was wrong. If so, then the DM really has NO grounds to be claiming that he can't touch touch the Psion and that the combo is overpowered. See, there's this spell called Acid Fog, and this other one called Mind Fog. And there's that spell that allows you to summon creatures, even on the other side of walls of force. Oh yeah, and don't forget Cloud Kill and Destruction. If the telekinetic sphere only blocks spells that require line of effect and physical movement there are SO MANY OPTIONS, even at low levels.

Oh wait, I see what you're saying. You're interpreting the description of wall of force to imply that a Wall of Force blocks all spells, even those that don't require line of effect? Weird. I don't think our group ever used Wall of Force like that. We only had it block line of effect spells, since allowing it to block line of sight spells never made much sense to us. If that's the case, I can understand your argument.

It sounds as if you think that summoning spells don't require line of effect? I'm pretty sure that they do - otherwise the wall of force + summoned creature the other side would be a sure fire win for most dungeon expeditions of 9th level upwards!

What spells do you not consider to need line of effect? Teleports and Dimension Door are the only ones that immediately come to mind for me...

Just curious.