D&D 5E Psionic Mages?

[Sadrik]

So it was recently mentioned at on twitter that psion will be a subclass of Mage.

I have no problems with this at all. In 3e Psions always had way too much duplication. I would rather see the psion powers spilled into the regular spells to bolster schools like divination and enchantment charm. I think this is a fantastic turn of events.

 

[steeldragons]

ya know...the older I get get the more I think that there is more confusion and disagreement over words and titles when it comes to D&D.

For example...Would we be on page 5 of this thread, with 2 other threads and a poll floating around on the same topic and spewing our varied collective outrage if the damn thing were just called "Mystic"?

If the article or wherever this is from had just said:

"The following classes are those individuals who have access to and use strange powers rather than relying on weapons or skills to overcome their adventuring challenges. They gain and increase their power through arcane/occult/forbidden or otherwise unknown means not completely understood by other 'normal folk.' The Mage, whether Wizard or Sorcerer, the Warlock, and the Psion all fall into this classification.

As a Mystic class, your PC receives: d6 HD +Con per level.
- Your class' Primary Ability modifier increases by 1 every 4 levels.
- You receive 2 beginning skills stipulated by your sub-class choices.
- Receive and increase in spells and/or powers according to the following charts and tables, below [not really below, but that's what it would say in the book ]
- You may choose spells and/or powers from the lists stipulated by your class/sub-class choice. [Yes, in my dream multiverse, each class is getting their own spell/power lists to choose from. There would probably some things that are common to all, but then others that, frex the Warlock could cast that a Sorcerer couldn't, or a mind trick a Psion could do that a Wizard can't duplicate with a spell, etc...]
- You access these powers and/or spells via a specific mechanic stipulated by your sub-class choices. How a Wizard casts spells is different than how a Sorcerer does. How a Warlock manifests their diabolic powers is different than how a Psion manifests their mental abilities."

...or blahbitty blah blah WHATEVER! The exact mechanics aren't really important/the point.

Would we all be sitting here typing and debating if they had just made the damnable umbrella class "Mystic" instead of "Mage"? Someone who does weird unexplainable stuff vs. 3 guys who use "Arcane magic" and a psychic?

 

[TwoSix]

Would we all be sitting here typing and debating if they had just made the damnable umbrella class "Mystic" instead of "Mage"? Someone who does weird unexplainable stuff vs. 3 guys who use "Arcane magic" and a psychic?

Most of these fights come down to semantics. Does "Fighter" mean "well-trained farmboy" or "proto-Gilgamesh"? Does "Cleric" mean "armored knight who rode with Roland" or "white mage"? Is "Psionics" something completely distinct from what a wizard does, or is it just magic that's based on mental energy?

 

[KidSnide]

I'm agnostic on the organizational point, but I've always viewed the difference between psionics and arcane magic to be the whole point of introducing psionics into a campaign. I get how plenty of folks want to allow all the class mechanics without introducing the additional story, but the story for psionics is a different discipline practiced by different people with different training. As was said up-thread, psionics are as different from arcane magic as divine magic is from arcane magic.

So, yes, on its face, folding psionics into the Mage class doesn't make a lot of sense. But I'm willing to see what they do first.

-KS

 

[Weather Report]

As was said up-thread, psionics are as different from arcane magic as divine magic is from arcane magic.

Which is not very different at all.

 

[Mistwell]

The this "difference" between psionics and magic is meaningful, but it can mostly be done through descriptive text in the sub-class itself. You can just explain in the sub-class text that it's not magic, that it's from an internal source of power, etc.. And then if you want to use the power-point scheme and psicrystals and unique class abilities, you can do all that within the context of the sub-class as well, while still using the main Mage progression chart. I posted what that could look like above. You can fit all the fluff and crunch that makes the Psion different from the Wizard, within the sub-class itself.

If people disagree, tell me what's wrong with that image I posted earlier that does just that?

 

[bogmad]

The this "difference" between psionics and magic is meaningful, but it can mostly be done through descriptive text in the sub-class itself. You can just explain in the sub-class text that it's not magic, that it's from an internal source of power, etc.. And then if you want to use the power-point scheme and psicrystals and unique class abilities, you can do all that within the context of the sub-class as well, while still using the main Mage progression chart. I posted what that could look like above. You can fit all the fluff and crunch that makes the Psion different from the Wizard, within the sub-class itself.

If people disagree, tell me what's wrong with that image I posted earlier that does just that?

I mentioned some earlier, maybe overselling what I'd want rather than my concerns.

What's your consensus on the spell list for the psion? Is there anything to differentiate a psion with psionic abilities from a mentalist wizard, other than a psicrystal affinity (which I wasn't a huge fan of), and a few subclass differences somewhere down the line?

 

[KidSnide]

What's your consensus on the spell list for the psion? Is there anything to differentiate a psion with psionic abilities from a mentalist wizard, other than a psicrystal affinity (which I wasn't a huge fan of), and a few subclass differences somewhere down the line?

In the same way that divine magic is different than arcane magic, psionics are primarily different from arcane magic because of the spell list. At least for telepaths, psionic blast (I.e. psychic damage), mental communication, direct mind reading, and psychic surgery (memory and personality modifications) are core features that don't fit in as well for an enchantment focused wizard. Frankly, some of these abilities are a core part of the psionic footprint, but can be game breaking and are best as an optional component for a game world. Activation is also different for psionics who rarely need the verbal, somatic or material components of arcane magic.

I could do without the crystal nonsense...

-KS