Psionics: Balance and Integration

[KarinsDad]

Incidentally KarinsDad, some psion-to-psion advice: If you can pick up Overchannel, you might be able to save yourself PsPs on the number of times you need to refresh the long-duration buffs, since it raises your caster level and thus the duration whether or not you choose to pay the extra PsP for the augmented power.

Thought about that.

At level 8, it could bump 2 levels (i.e. 2 hours), but the only long duration powers I have are Inertial Armor and Darkvision. So, 10 hours instead of 8 hours (abet at +1 AC) isn't buying me much. It works good at 10th level though (just because you could get the 24 hours in two 12 hour shots).


Extend Power, on the other hand, increases the duration a lot (abet at -1 AC). I'm trying to find a way to sneak Extend Power into my repetoire, but it looks doubtful at this point. At level 8, that would be AC 17 during the day for 8 hours and AC 16 the rest of the time for 16 hours, for a total of 14 PP. That would cover me 24/7 as opposed to my real situation when I gain 8th level of AC 17 for 24 PP a day. I'm willing to drop AC by one 2/3rds of the time in order to save 10 PP a day, I just do not happen to have the feat.

But, the real advantage of Extend Power is for Thicken Skin, especially at levels divisible by 3. For example, 9th level +3 AC for 3 hours, instead of an hour and a half, for 2 more PP. At high level, this adds up (+6 AC for 6 hours at 18th level for 18 PP). At level 18, my AC just for 18 hours of Inertial Armor and 6 hours of Thicken Skin would be AC 30 with no magical items or anything. If I get into a fight, throw up Force Screen for +8 more AC and many 18th level Fighter-types would only have about a 60/40 chance of hitting AC 38 (and again, this assumes no other magical AC items for my psion). If the opponent is tough and hits me a lot, throw up Precognition Defense for another +6 AC.

Course, you have to watch out for Dispel Magic and Dispel Psionics, so sometimes it is not best to boost the duration as much as possible. I learned that lesson a few years back when my Dwarven Wizard had his Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Image, and Expeditious Retreat spells all zapped at once by an Orc Shaman while he was surrounded by other Orcs.

However, the short duration AC buffs should be OverChanneled in a big fight to increase their AC even more. Course, I don't have Overchannel yet either.

 

[Rystil Arden]

No Overchannel either? Hmm...you've got 5 feats (guessing you're an Elan?), so I guess you took Psicrystal Affinity, Psicrystal Containment, Psionic Meditation, and then something with which to use the Focus? As an Egoist, I would have probably taken the last two as either Overchannel and Empower or Overchannel and Talented.

 

[KarinsDad]

No Overchannel either? Hmm...you've got 5 feats (guessing you're an Elan?), so I guess you took Psicrystal Affinity, Psicrystal Containment, Psionic Meditation, and then something with which to use the Focus? As an Egoist, I would have probably taken the last two as either Overchannel and Empower or Overchannel and Talented.

You'd be guessing mostly wrong.

In order:

Martial Weapon - Greatsword
Psionic Weapon
Expanded Power - Astral Construct
Psionic Meditation
Empower Power

At lower level, this allowed me to psionic weapon at least once per combat. I normally did it against a prone opponent, or by charging an opponent while an ally had flank. 4D6+3 points of damage (14 Str) is nothing to sneeze at during the lower levels, especially with the +2 to hit with Str which offsets the BAB loss a little. And, I have since picked up a +1 Greatsword, so it’s even nicer. At low level, I can run out of PP, but I can always regain my focus, at least out of combat as long as I have 1 PP left over.

Astral Construct because, well, astral constructs are cool (I especially like being flown around by them).

Psionic Mediation allows me to often Psionic Weapon every other round now. 5-foot step back, two attempts at getting back my psionic focus, move back in and attack next round (if my opponent has not come at me in the meantime). And if my opponent is still 10 feet away and has not moved back in, I get 3 attempts to regain the psion focus and still attack big every other round. Course, I normally do not do this unless my opponent appears to have DR (a 2D6+4 attempt every round is better than a 4D6+4 attempt every other round).

It also allows me to Empower Power almost every round if I want to.

Empower Power was mostly a set up for higher level. Even at 7th level, I do slightly more damage with my Energy Ray and Energy Bolt with it. But, typically not enough extra to burn up the psionic focus yet.

I especially want Empower Power for Ego Whip in the future. How do you take out a Barbarian, Bard, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, or Warmage? With an Empowered, Power Specialization, Greater Power Specialization, Ego Whip. Often, in a single round except for the Bard, Sorcerer, and Warmage who you merely take out their higher level (and sometimes most of their) spells in a single round.

How do I get all of this in the future? At 10th level, shortly before going to 11th level, I will be using Psychic Reformation to switch around a bunch of my powers and feats, and then become a Slayer out of the SRD (enemy Inspired) at 11th level. I will be dropping Martial Weapon - Greatsword and possibly Psionic Weapon (not sure yet on this) and taking the Track feat. With the 9th and 10th level feats, this allows me to also get Weapon Focus Ray and minimally Power Specialization and as a Slayer, I can still use my Greatsword if necessary.

I doubt our campaign will last that long (one of our players will be leaving for Germany at the end of the summer), but I can always dream.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Guess that shows my bias towards getting focus and higher caster level in 3.5, what with psions losing the good melee buffs, although my 3.0 Psion did have a Greatsword proficiency and used it well (as part of a ploy to convince the party that I was actually some sort of odd bard, since everyone hated psions in that game--the characters and NPCs, not the players). I was amused when the fighter hid behind my psion during the BBEG fight.

 

[Thanee]

Not convincing.

You say it.

Considering that she does not go anywhere without Inertial Armor up...

That's your fault, if you don't make use of the Psion's advantage to wear armor without any noteworthy limitation.

Example: A 7th level Sorcerer (or Wizard) casting a first level Ray of Enfeeblement does 4-9 points of Strength penalty with no save, but needs a ranged touch attack. A 7th level Psion with Ego Whip does 2-8 points of Charisma damage if the save is not made, but it costs her 7 PP.

And you really think, a Str penalty (no stacking !!) for a couple minutes is equal to actual Charisma *damage* (which can stack with itself !! and stays for days)?

I hope not!

The medium range vs close range advantage might also be noteworthy (tho, admittedly, arcanists generally have the upper hand with range).

The higher PP cost is the cost for the higher flexibility (that is, no slots), nothing else. You cannot say, that you pay more for an augmented power compared to a scaled spell (same/similar actual spell/power level), as this is balanced via the flexibility and thus already taken care of.

Besides, the higher level you go (6th isn't really high yet), the less often you'll use your full alotment of spells in a day. My 12th level sorceress often has half her slots open at the end of the day. Then you will (hopefully) really see how much advantage it is to be able to squeeze all PP in the same time it takes to cast half your alotment of spells. Because you are then, on an average day, about twice as powerful as a compareable arcane spellcaster.

Unless, of course, the DM goes to great lengths to prevent you from doing so, which is nearly impossible without serious railroading-style action usually.

Leave some PP reserve in case something happens, and you're still much more powerful and still able to contribute if something happens later.

Bye
Thanee

 

[glass]

For the benefit of those of us who do not have Complete Arcane yet, what does it do (or not do)?

Bizarely, I do actually have CArc, but had completely forgotten that I had bought it until I got home and saw it there on my bookshelf. But I hadn't read through the feats chapter in detail, and hadn't noticed...

No sonic

...so thanks anyway for bringing it to my attention.


glass.

 

[Thanee]

Bizarely, I do actually have CArc, but had completely forgotten that I had bought it until I got home and saw it there on my bookshelf.

ROFL

Buying too many books, huh?

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

That's your fault, if you don't make use of the Psion's advantage to wear armor without any noteworthy limitation.

Actually, she used to have +1 Studded Leather, but she gave it to another PC (who died, so it actually went to his "family") once her Inertial Armor duration got up to a reasonable level.

The Barbarian used to complain about having to lug it around for her night time use before then.

And you really think, a Str penalty (no stacking !!) for a couple minutes is equal to actual Charisma *damage* (which can stack with itself !! and stays for days)?

I hope not!

Actually, that are fairly similar.

At low level, the Cha damage is so insignificant that you usually have to cast it 4 or more times to take out an opponent. At the earliest it can be acquired third level with max 15 PP for most psions, you can cast it 5 times max. That's an average of 12.5 points of Charisma if all 5 saves are failed and that take 5 rounds. Hardly an enviable attack except against Sorcerers, Bards, and Warmages.

On the other hand, a Cleric could back up 5 foot from an opponent, cast Hold Person, and then back 5 foot and coup de grace him. This is successful if only 3 saves are missed and the opponent could also be attacked by other allies of the Cleric while helpless.

So yes, you can acutally take out an opponent with Ego Whip, but you really won't be doing this before 7th level unless you Empower it at 5th level. And, you'll still be casting it at least 2 times and usually 3 times before it works. That's a lot of rounds to focus on one opponent where you get absolutely ZERO result until the last round for most opponents.

The thing about Ray of Enfeeblement is that although it is only a penalty, if you can get your opponent down to a really low Strength in a single round, they will often fall over prone due the weight of their own equipment (or at least be put in encumberance) and if not, still become a significantly less capable combatant. That is not as good as helpless, but it is pretty darn nice. And, you can do this at an earlier level and with a single spell and in a single round than with Ego Whip.

Sure, at real high level, Ego Whip is better. But the duration is irrelevant. Either you win the combat or you do not most times.

The higher PP cost is the cost for the higher flexibility (that is, no slots), nothing else. You cannot say, that you pay more for an augmented power compared to a scaled spell (same/similar actual spell/power level), as this is balanced via the flexibility and thus already taken care of.

Except that Sorcerers and Warlocks have a similar flexibilty and still will not run out of scaled spells by the end of the day past mid level.

A little more flexibility versus auto-scaled spells sounds balanced to me.

Besides, the higher level you go (6th isn't really high yet), the less often you'll use your full alotment of spells in a day. My 12th level sorceress often has half her slots open at the end of the day. Then you will (hopefully) really see how much advantage it is to be able to squeeze all PP in the same time it takes to cast half your alotment of spells. Because you are then, on an average day, about twice as powerful as a compareable arcane spellcaster.

You made the claim, back it up with some numbers.

 

[KarinsDad]

ROFL

Buying too many books, huh?

That's ok, I bought the Psionic book for this campaign so I could play a psion. Found out I already had one, so I loaned my other copy to the player of the other psion in the group.

 

[Thanee]

Sure, at real high level, Ego Whip is better. But the duration is irrelevant. Either you win the combat or you do not most times.

That mostly depends on how you use it. How about NPCs using these on the PCs?

How irrelevant is the duration then?

Except that Sorcerers and Warlocks have a similar flexibilty ...

No, they have slots. They cannot "merge" some low level slots into a high level slot or split up a high level slot into some low level slots.

A little more flexibility versus auto-scaled spells sounds balanced to me.

That is something I totally agree with (except for the "little" ), actually, and what I meant. The higher flexibility of the Psion is balanced by the lack of scaling (and thus the augmentation cost).

However, there are quite a few other advantages, which do not seem to be balanced by anything (i.e. the faster power progression, bonus feats, or higher number of "effective spells known" (esp. of the highest known levels) - compared with another spontaneous caster (i.e. Sorcerer), of course - and then we also have the lack of components (grapple, silence), armor use (not a biggie, but still), etc).

You made the claim, back it up with some numbers.

Just look for the old threads, have done so multiple times already.

But numbers are really not relevant for my point.

It's obvious enough, that a Psion - if PP expenditure does not need to be kept down - can put out more effect in the same time. That combined with the experience figure, that spellcasters rarely use their full alotment of spells, leads to my "claim".

Bye
Thanee