Psionics: Balance and Integration

[KarinsDad]

That is not really the case in our games. Opponents are not tailored against specific PCs. They are more tailored to the background and are designed to be good in what they normally do.

And that is normally also not necessary. There are plenty opponents, which make the life difficult for spellcasters, for example, so this isn't really needed.

Strange.

You do not have detailed PC character backgrounds and campaign settings where PC religions and other related PC organizations have enemy groups and PCs have backgrounds where they have motivating factors for countering the actions of specific enemy groups? They rely on all of their NPC interactions and motivations on the specific campaign setting alone and not on their backgrounds?

Sounds somewhat impersonal.

PC Party Leader: "What are you?"

PC #7: "I'm a Barbarian and my entire goal in life is to fight enemies, but I don't know why and I don't know who my enemies are."

PC Party Leader: "Perfect. We'll let you know who your enemies are. Ok, front line. Next."

 

[Nail]

That is not really the case in our games. Opponents are not tailored against specific PCs. They are more tailored to the background and are designed to be good in what they normally do.

Bingo.

Again: I'm currently, *right now*, seeing what a psion can do. This is not some idle theory gleaned from reading the boards. And quite obviously, YMMV, IMC, IME, etc, etc --- and your whole perception is dependent on which powers you pick. It's not at all surprising that those that say "psions are balanced" are not playing optimized psions.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Bingo.

Again: I'm currently, *right now*, seeing what a psion can do. This is not some idle theory gleaned from reading the boards. And quite obviously, YMMV, IMC, IME, etc, etc --- and your whole perception is dependent on which powers you pick. It's not at all surprising that those that say "psions are balanced" are not playing optimized psions.

It's not at all surprising that those that say "psions are balanced" are not playing optimized psions.

I think that might elicit a few chuckles at my gaming table. I'm known for constructing optimised characters when I want to; it keeps the PCs from being tempted to do so, as they know I could one-up their munchkin character if necessary.

 

[Thanee]

You do not have detailed PC character backgrounds and campaign settings where PC religions and other related PC organizations have enemy groups and PCs have backgrounds where they have motivating factors for countering the actions of specific enemy groups? They rely on all of their NPC interactions and motivations on the specific campaign setting alone and not on their backgrounds?

Maybe I just misunderstood you there... the NPCs are not custom-tailored against the PCs.

They might know the PCs and then look into their own resources and take the best course of action to their knowledge, but the NPC character sheet is not done with a specific PC in mind to oppose.

Maybe that was not, what you were saying, it sounded like that to me, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Btw, I agree with you that Psions are better in some areas. But, my point is that they are worse in others, especially ranged combat, versatility, and having backup psionic items to help them, than arcane casters.

My point basically is, that Psions have more advantages than disadvantages overall.

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

My point basically is, that Psions have more advantages than disadvantages overall.

Maybe in theory, but not always in practice.

Last night we had an epic battle of 3 times as many demons (mostly Dretches) as PCs.

The Kineticist used up a lot of rounds and PPs attempting various Energy Missiles, most of which did very little or no damage. After a few rounds of fire and acid not affecting them much, the War Mage started crushing them right and left with Rain of Stone (or whatever that area affect stone spell is that War Mages get). Eventually, the Kineticist attempted a Sonic Energy Missile and then started affecting them. But by then, it was much later in the combat after most PCs were seriously wounded (which in our game matters) or unconscious and heavily depleted on abilities (i.e. spells, PPs, etc.).

The main reason was that there are not that many defenses against Rain of Stone since Damage Reduction does not apply against spells and Rain of Stone is not an energy attack that they get resistance to.

 

[KarinsDad]

Maybe I just misunderstood you there... the NPCs are not custom-tailored against the PCs.

They might know the PCs and then look into their own resources and take the best course of action to their knowledge, but the NPC character sheet is not done with a specific PC in mind to oppose.

Maybe that was not, what you were saying, it sounded like that to me, tho.

Let me give you an example.

The two psions in our campaign both (separately and unknowingly to the other player) put Inspired as enemies in their character backgrounds (not surprising since both Psions are in an Eberron world). They both have distinct individual reasons, which have nothing to do with each other, to track down and destroy Inspired (which works out nicely for the DM).

The Inspired, therefore, show up every once in a while in the adventures. The Inspired are not custom-tailored for those specific PCs, but there are a few re-occurring villain NPC Inspired in the campaign specifically because these two PCs have Inspired as a background enemy (one of whom they killed two weeks ago and it made their week ). If the players had not set this up in their background, we may have never seen an Inspired in the campaign.

Now, not all players in our group put together a real detailed background with inbuilt enemies, but many do.

 

[Thanee]

Ok, then I suppose I did misunderstand, what you were saying.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bront]

The main reason was that there are not that many defenses against Rain of Stone since Damage Reduction does not apply against spells and Rain of Stone is not an energy attack that they get resistance to.

While I am not familiar with that spell, DR applies against all physical damage, meaning that spells that do physical damage and not elemental (Such as part of Ice Storm) are counted against DR. However, generaly spells that do physical damage avoid other traps (Like SR sometimes, or saves sometimes)

Sounds to me, more and more, that Psions are balanced differently than wizards/sorcerers, and that is the issue. It's a GM's ability to deal with it that makes the difference in balance, which realy isn't much different than any other situation in gaming anyway.

 

[Nail]

Sounds to me, more and more, that Psions are balanced differently than wizards/sorcerers, and that is the issue. It's a GM's ability to deal with it that makes the difference in balance, which realy isn't much different than any other situation in gaming anyway.

Of course, having no support in the core books is also a concern. Name one monster in the MM, MMII, or MMIII with Dispel Ectoplasm, for example.

The central conceptual problem is psionics overlap with arcane magic. They are virtually the same, yet they have no mechanical counters for each other. In most campaigns, even with the "transparency" clause, this means the psion has the advantage over the arcanist.