Thanee said:
That mostly depends on how you use it. How about NPCs using these on the PCs?
How irrelevant is the duration then?
With Restoration available by the time it becomes even a moderate issue, not very in the large scheme of things.
Thanee said:
And Barbarians, Fighters or Rogues with often moderate to low Charisma and abysmal Will saves are also a rather good target for Ego Whip.
Just like Sorcerers and Wizards (and to a lesser extend Bards and Druids) with often moderate to low Strength and abysmal touch ACs are also a rather good target for Ray of Enfeeblement. Course, dropping the Fighter or Barbarian down to Str 10 or lower is nothing to sneeze about either.
And at high level, both Empowered Ego Whip and Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement tend to be good against almost everyone.
Let's do a comparison from first level on up, a first level Sorcerer with a 16 Cha and Ray of Enfeeblement versus a Psion with a 16 Int and Ego Whip. They will both Empower as early as possible and will boost their stat ever available time (but we will not use stat boosting items). I will list level, Sorcerer Number of Times Per Day, Sorcerer Average Damage assuming he does not miss (in which case he could often just cast again), Sorcerer Empower Number of Times Per Day, Sorcerer Empowered Average Damage, Psion Number of Times Per Day (max power), Psion Average Damage assuming his opponent does not save.
01 04 3.5 0 0 0 0
02 05 4.5 0 0 0 0
03 06 4.5 0 0 5 2.5
04 11 5.5 0 0 7 2.5
05 12 5.5 0 0 6 3.5
06 13 6.5 4 9.5 8 3.5 (1 2.5)
07 14 6.5 5 9.5 8 5
08 14 7.5 10 11 10 5 (1 2.5)
09 14 7.5 12 11 10 7.25
10 14 8.5 16 12.5 12 7.25
11 14 8.5 18 12.5 11 7.5 (1 5)
12 14 8.5 22 12.5 13 7.5 (1 5)
13 14 8.5 24 12.5 13 10.5 (1 2.5)
14 14 8.5 28 12.5 15 10.5 (1 2.5)
15 14 8.5 30 12.5 17 10.5 (1 2.5)
16 14 8.5 35 12.5 20 10.5
17 14 8.5 37 12.5 17 14
18 14 8.5 41 12.5 19 14
19 14 8.5 43 12.5 21 14
20 14 8.5 45 12.5 23 14
As can be seen, the Sorcerer kicks butt here for a LONG time. It isn't until 13th level that the Psion even starts to catch up and by then, Spell/Power Resistance becomes a factor. Plus, these numbers assume a hit or a failed save. This will not always happen, so it is unlikely that a Psion will take out an opponent in 2 rounds at levels 9 through 12. It will often take 3 rounds. So even though the damage stacks, this is a multi-round strategy for a Psion. It is often a single round strategy for a Sorcerer, two rounds at the most the majority of the time (i.e. he missed the first time). Course with True Strike, it is a 95% success rate for a two round strategy for the Sorcerer.
At 12th level, it behooves the Sorcerer to both Empower and Maximize it.
If he does that, he gets:
12 03 15
13 04 15
14 08 15
15 10 15
16 14 15
17 16 15
18 20 15
19 22 15
20 26 15
with a very tight range of 14 to 16 (average 15). Even an extremely strong Fighter with a 25 Str is going to feel a 15 Str penalty. A 8 Str Wizard will fall over prone due to his equipment starting about level 6 for the Sorcerer.
It never behooves the Psion to Empower and Maximize it (first off because he needs two psionic focuses to do that). And even at 17th level, empowered Maximized is still only 15 points (i.e. 1 more on average). The Psion has to use other feats like Power Specialization and Greater Power Specialization (which is a 3 feat tree) to really boost this up more.
No doubt about it. Psions at high levels can take opponents out with Ego Whip (or even possibly starting at 7th level as a 3+ round strategy). But, you have to survive the low to mid levels and there, Sorcerers have a major edge in this department.
Pros and Cons for both.
Take away an enemy Wizard's strength on round one where his spellbooks in his backpack alone pull him prone to the ground, put up a circular Wall of Fire with the heat on the inside on round two. That will mess up most's Wizard's day. A Sorcerer can do this at 8th level (he can get most Wizards prone at level 6 unless they are carrying nothing and even then, a 1 Str Wizard is meat for a grapple).
