Psionics Balanced?

[Kat']

It's true that over the course of four or five encounters they are balanced with other spellcasters, but the problem I ran into was that after two encounters with all PP spent already the group would just retreat and rest. Sometimes it was one encounter, sometimes it was three encounters, but as soon as the PP ran out, it was resting time.

Yeah, but you are the DM, and you decide if the PCs can rest or not. A PC waking up at 8 AM and spending all his PPs until noon will not be tired, and will not want to lay down for the rest of the day if, say, he has to be out of the dungeon in 48 hours. Maybe you shouldn't allow your players to deal with their resources so lightly. As said, wandering monster do exist.

I'd argue the Crystal Shard is pretty close. No spell resistance or save, you do have to make a ranged touch attack, but damage-wise it's nasty (and one of our Psion's preferred powers).

Crystal Shard is a metacreativity power that deals piercing damage and is thus subject to damage reduction. And here some numbers, 'cause I like it so much
Split Psionic Ray Empowered Maximized Crystal Shard manifested by a level 20 psion would deal 218 points of slashing damage to a target, no save, no SR, but subject to damage reduction, at the cost of 20 PP.
Arcane Thesis Split Ray Empower Disintegrate manifested by a level 20 wizard deals an average 420 points of damage (Fort partial) and uses up and 8th level slot (equivalent to 15 PP).

Quite balanced, I'd say.

 

[irdeggman]

Another factor that can be huge is the ranges of powers versus spells.

There are very few powers that are long range and most (or more than spells) that are in the close range.

So 1 shot and the bad guy is on you.

Also the talent feat requires expenditure of the psionic focus - which unless you have psionic meditation it takes a full round to regain your focus.

So in order to successfully overchannel a psion needs:

Ovechannel feat
Talented feat
Psionic meditation (prereq - Wis 13, Con 7 ranks)

And if you want to go the psionic shot route:

Point blank shot
Psionic shot (prereq, PBS)
Greater Pasionic Shot (BAB +5)

That is a lot of feats to spend (even if the psion gets a bonus feat at 1st and every 5th level afterwards)

Oh and then there is psionc body (for the extra hit points)

A lot of feats invested for doing a lot of damage at close (and maybe medium range).

 

[Dargon]

I think I come down to whatever or not you have the 4 encounters a day.
Now I have tried to run a 4 encounters a day game but it did not work out. I find it hard to justify the many attacks in a normal environment. In a war zone yes, in the abyss yes, but beside that, now. If enemies were that many all peasants and citizens in the world would be wiped out in a few months.

Anyway I think I might try again with psions in one of my game as one of the players love them. However this time it will be with no things that allow spending more power points then yo have in level

 

[Darklone]

Rope Trick, rope Trick... don't you have dimensional wandering monsters ?

 

[Nifft]

Rope Trick, rope Trick... don't you have dimensional wandering monsters ?

This is the only good excuse for ever using an Ethereal Filcher. The only one ever. (grumble stupid monster grumble grumble)

Cheers, -- N

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Another factor that can be huge is the ranges of powers versus spells.

There are very few powers that are long range and most (or more than spells) that are in the close range.

Exactly. My psion was deadly as all getout within medium range, and helpless as a kitten outside of that.

The balancing problems really do even themselves out if you use multiple fights/day.

Brad

 

[Bacris]

Rope Trick, rope Trick... don't you have dimensional wandering monsters ?

At 3rd level?

You have to admit, at the level it's available, it's a bit silly.

 

[irdeggman]

I just want to make sure that people don't think that psions regenerate their pp with 8 hrs of sleep. All this talk of rope trick and backing out and resetting and the like almost makes it look like that is the thought process. They need 8 hrs of sleep (or rest, meditations, etc.) to regain their daily allotment. So just like spellcasters they don't get multiple allotments in a single day merely by resting for 8 hrs between combats. IMO it is best to think of it a a parralel to how divine casters regain their spells at a certain time of the day. The systems are designed to ensure that the casters/manifesters don't vastly overpower their non-spellcasting/manifesting counterparts.

 

[Darklone]

At 3rd level?

You have to admit, at the level it's available, it's a bit silly.

As our beloved and adored penguin mentioned this CR3 party hopper:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/etherealFilcher.htm

Players who rely on Rope Trick after wasting their resources every fight die in my campaigns. It's that simple. I give a warning though.

And don't forget most intelligent opponents are not so easily fooled by Rope Trick.

 

[eamon]

I just want to make sure that people don't think that psions regenerate their pp with 8 hrs of sleep. All this talk of rope trick and backing out and resetting and the like almost makes it look like that is the thought process. They need 8 hrs of sleep (or rest, meditations, etc.) to regain their daily allotment. So just like spellcasters they don't get multiple allotments in a single day merely by resting for 8 hrs between combats. IMO it is best to think of it a a parralel to how divine casters regain their spells at a certain time of the day. The systems are designed to ensure that the casters/manifesters don't vastly overpower their non-spellcasting/manifesting counterparts.

Generally I let my party regain their daily powers after 8 hours of rest (not necessarily sleep). They very rarely make use of it though; and it's only really useful if you can find a safe spot, and have not time issues to worry about. And if time isn't an issue, then they can just wait a day instead of half a day just as easily, usually. Safety is an issue though, since any spells (and power points?) used while resting also count against the next day's allotment.

It's a matter of taste. I can see how it would be distasteful if a party simply attacked and rested all the time, but I also find it makes more sense to let any such ability work once refreshed again.