Psionics Handbook

[Psion]

BTW, is the revised book also written by Bruce Cordell?

Yes.

And for that, I am thankful.

 

[Piratecat]

• random save DCs are just silly, and do nothing to contribute to making psionics "feel different", much less make up for all the other efforts to make it the same. Oh, wait, that's been scrapped. Nevermind.

Interesting that you love 2e psionics and dislike this rule; it was put into place to specifically mimic the 2e psionics method of using ability checks to activate your powers, and possibly have them fail to work at all.

 

[Psion]

However, I definitely agree with the ones who feel like it is just a variant magic system

And since psionics is, by any fair definition, magic, that is a problem because...?

The thing about earlier versions is they did an end-run arond the balances built into the magic system and resulted in some hideously abusable systems. Making the psionics system more closely emulate the existing magic system is a good thing.

The 3.0 psions could have been called mages - or any other synonym for wizards/sorcerers - and put into the PHB, and no one would have noticed the difference.

I disagree.

Psionics, as it exists in D&D, has certain direct implications that its fans look for, mainly:

- point based system
- a system for direct mind to mind combat implicit in the powers of all psionics
- power "from within", not with trappings traditionally associated with D&D magic, e.g., verbal, somantic, and material components.

Without the label psionics, you don't have the flag that it has these characteristics that D&D psionics fans are looking for.

I admit that I have never used psi powers in any D&D game because I always felt they would fit more a science fiction theme than fantasy,

They were refugees from fantasy in the first place. But if you don't think they belong in fantasy, try reading Kurtz's Deryni or Bradley's Darkover novels sometime.

 

[Psion]

Interesting that you love 2e psionics and dislike this rule; it was put into place to specifically mimic the 2e psionics method of using ability checks to activate your powers, and possibly have them fail to work at all.

And worse, possibly backfiring in a heinous way.

 

[Li Shenron]

And since psionics is, by any fair definition, magic, that is a problem because...?

No problem, just that it feels sometimes redundant to me. Don't know why. Maybe (just maybe) it's the fact that it is kept very separate from magic, but at the same time it is used to achieve the same thing. It's possible that this is what I don't like after all.

The thing about earlier versions is they did an end-run arond the balances built into the magic system and resulted in some hideously abusable systems. Making the psionics system more closely emulate the existing magic system is a good thing.

Rulewise it looks a very fine system to me, as I said in the previous post.

They were refugees from fantasy in the first place. But if you don't think they belong in fantasy, try reading Kurtz's Deryni or Bradley's Darkover novels sometime.

I must have read too few But I also have to say that I don't like very much having too much stuff in a RPG. D&D is by default a big cauldron that uses very many sources as inspiration, and maybe has an attitude of trying to allow anything so that no one will miss his favourites; that is why the monsters are taken from celtic and western fantasy as well as greek/latin epic literature as well as tolkien as well as egyptian myths as well as hebrew legends as well as modern gothic stories... It is therefore possible that I just never felt that psionics would have changed enough in our games...

 

[rounser]

And since psionics is, by any fair definition, magic, that is a problem because...?

Eh. In this case, it may walk like a duck and quack like a duck, but I say it's still not a duck. You say it is...I say it's about as magical as the Force is....which is to say, not at all.

 

[kilamanjaro]

Eh. In this case, it may walk like a duck and quack like a duck, but I say it's still not a duck. You say it is...I say it's about as magical as the Force is....which is to say, not at all.

The Force is as magical as can be.

 

[drothgery]

I'm always surprised that people who have issues with psi/magic transperency don't seem to have problems with divine/arcane transparency.

I mean

• Wizards (and sorcerers) do weird stuff by tapping external sources of energy.
• Clerics (and paladins) do weird stuff due to boons from higher powers
• Druids (and rangers) do weird stuff by communing with nature
• Bards do weird stuff by finding the magic in music

So why should the weird stuff that psions (and psychic warriors and wilders) do by tapping internal sources of energy be the only one of these that isn't transparent to the others.

 

[diaglo]

The Force is as magical as can be.

divine magic even.

 

[Henry]

Eh. In this case, it may walk like a duck and quack like a duck, but I say it's still not a duck. You say it is...I say it's about as magical as the Force is....which is to say, not at all.

Actually, the Force as shown in the star wars movies is a form of animistic magic itself - from the perspective of the non-attuned, you're end-running the "laws of physics" of the Star Wars universe and from the Jedi perspective you're moving unseen energy in ways that resonate changes in the physical world.

I liked the old 1st and 2nd version of Psionics for their times; I dislike the end-result of psionics in the 3E version, though I liked some of its concepts. As long as they keep power points, and institute some changes that result in more useful powers, I'll like the 3.5 version, I think. A psion is useful in a limited set of circumstances, but even though a high-level lesser-concussion-punching psion is doing 1d6 damage over hundreds of rounds, it's silly to say he's more powerful, because anyone who nickels and dimes his enemy to death is going to get killed long before he has a serious effect.

I also heavily dislike the random d20 effect, because it makes the psion's power too unpredictable. One minute, the psion is charming the scullery maid with a DC 23 charm person; the next minute, he's struggling to get off a DC 8 charm person against a guard. I could see some variation (say, 1d6 points), but not 1d20.