Psionics Handbook

[Raduin711]

Bottom line for me is this. When I think about psychic powers, i think about powers that are, for the most part, invisible or intangible. Someone who can read thoughts, send messages, see distant places, or even predict the future. At its flashiest, they manipulate things in their environment. They can manipulate certain elements (especially fire). They can even go on the offensive, attacking someone from within their own mind. Sometimes they can even give psychic energy physical form, or perform stunts of the mind and body that few could duplicate.

The closer the Expanded Psionics Handbook is to this ideal, the more I like it. If it will be easier to take out all the "goofy stuff" (summoning magic goo monsters, making crossbow bolts appear out of thin air) then the more I will like it. I'm a fairly accomodating person, so I can stand a degree of it.

 

[Psion]

I'm always surprised that people who have issues with psi/magic transperency don't seem to have problems with divine/arcane transparency.

FWIW, I used a version of the transparency rules in my own game back in 2e as a house rule. I was glad to see it in 3e.

It never made sense to me (for example) why you could use magic to read thoughts and it would face different hurdles that using psionics to do the same thing.

 

[woodelf]

I'm always surprised that people who have issues with psi/magic transperency don't seem to have problems with divine/arcane transparency.

I mean

• Wizards (and sorcerers) do weird stuff by tapping external sources of energy.
• Clerics (and paladins) do weird stuff due to boons from higher powers
• Druids (and rangers) do weird stuff by communing with nature
• Bards do weird stuff by finding the magic in music

So why should the weird stuff that psions (and psychic warriors and wilders) do by tapping internal sources of energy be the only one of these that isn't transparent to the others.

Well, i've always had some issues with that, too. So i figured it out to make sense:

• there's mana in the world
• wizards (and bards) have learned to tap this mana through study and arcane ritual--that's why all the components
• priests (and paladins and rangers) instead call upon deities (and divine servants) who do the dirty work for them--but it's still the same mana being used. and thus divine casters never need material components (beyond their holy symbol), and the only verbal/somatic components are a prayer
• druids have tapped into the fundamental nature of reality, drawing upon the Powers that underly (and possibly created) it. This power is, of course, the mana that flows through reality. The difference in their method is that they are working "within" the laws of reality, rather than end-running around them--think of it as they have a really deep esoteric knowledge of the easter eggs of reality. The difference shows up in that (1) druid spells are sometimes more powerful for their level, (2) they are distinctly limited in scope to nature-related effects, and (3) there's no such thing as researching/inventing new spells. An arcane caster can do some research and experimentation and invent a new spell. A divine caster can pray to their god and ask that an unusual effect be granted. Druids are stuck with what they've got.
• psionics doesn't use mana. It comes from within a being, rather than from the world around. It is the power of the sentient mind directly affecting reality (rather than affecting mana, which affects reality). As such, it doesn't show up when you "detect magic"--but there's nothing preventing someone from casting a "detect psionics" spell. It is inherently limited in that it is very difficult for psionic powers to affect things without minds. So, telepathy is easy, clairsentience as fairly easy (because you're not affecting/altering the outside world, just observing it). Psychoportation and Psychometabolism become a bit trickier, but mostly you're only affecting your own body, and while that's actual physical matter, it's very much under the influence of your mind to begin with. Psychokinesis, however, is pretty hard, with pure energy effects (light, fire, etc) being the "easiest" (still much harder than doing it with any flavor of magic), and the more "physical" the effect, the harder it is.

So, yeah, I had a problem with divine/arcane transparency--or at least as soon as i thought about introducing psionics i did. So i rationalized it, specifically preserving the important parts (IMHO): that psionics work differently, and that magics at least mostly interact. I've actually thought about making the various magics non-transparent, too. Instead, my current thought is that there need to be actual "nature" and "spiritual" powers, and that the spells clerics and druids cast really *are* the same thing as wizards cast--one of the things divine blessing gets you is shortcut access to slinging spells. But the other powers of the classes are most definitely *not* the same thing as magic. Still sussing out the exact ramifications (and how not to shatter any semblance of balance), but i'm thinking the first thing is they won't show up on a detect magic--but might show up to other spells (such as true seeing).

 

[reiella]

I think the flavor of Psionics in DS/2e is impossible to obtain in 3e without breaking balance significantly.

Some of them specifically

Powerful Wild Talents : It's just not 'good' balance to have significantly powerful Wild Talents. The upcoming Wild Talent feat may do well to 'emulate' the idea that anyone can develop psionic talents, but not that anyone can potentially develop the most powerful psionic talents.

Impressive 'Unique' Powers : While possible in an individual campaign, it becomes difficult to enforce. Even with 3e sources you see some of the more unique powers being 'spread' to magic in different supplements, and some of magic's more unique abilities 'spreading' to psionics in the Mind's Eye or If Thoughts Could Kill. This is a problem with having it balanced and using the same 'rough system' (power levels) as magic.

Greatly 'Overpowered' Combos/Powers : Just doesn't make sense in a balanced world to have some items that are blatantly (and arguably grotesquely) powerful character traits.

The Default Presumption: Magic vesus Psionics... The default presumption in 3.x is going to be "it's a kind of magic". At least from WotC. While they do explain a mechanics option to distinquish the effects (ie, the magic/psi transparency), it's really difficult to not see "magic in the roots".

 

[Felikeries]

i've found most the psionic materials dissagreeable

this is what stands for psionics as i see it

The power's are a finite # of players that have won a lucky take and
the next step should revoke some of their original class etc. powers

This should be stable with less is more thoery as for advantagous powers
so thusly in no way does the magic spell casting worths get cut from their rank on 'weave' powers and battle ability

Various campaigns at higher levels may allow certain scenarios that a character may transform their ability with the same idea as that which is taken from their original class

The checks that are made should have the same relativity as the players original stats etc,rather than it's own resource,ultimately the variation
should be used for what it is a simplified way to have some extra spell like powers that does'nt sway the turn of conflict for an entire campaign

Some features may have psionic saves,defense,or increased dmg,that are actually for the purpous of plkayers fighting against them,and what the psionics could do as a flavour for that bit in a campaign;however using psionics for greater constructs against 'evil lord' leader's and defying wards etc with greater worth is truelly a minimaly needed element

One obvious choice is that the level a psionic player attains a power is the worth of which it can be used for a 'meta' channel for a member of the party's spell casting.This extra is thus abiden in some cases yet could be a powerfull extra at others,despite the spell level itself,in some examples simply the level it was learned,therefore affected with the psionic level adj that the power was taken making a furrysome interaction with a psionic player in the party.

 

[Benben]

I've always loved the concept of psionics, but have never liked what's been published in Core D&D. The 3E system I found to be loads better than the 2nd and 1st ed materials. The 3E system did need a series of patches though, and became much more interesting when Cordell introduced his mindscapes psionic combat system.

Recently I picked up Green Ronin's The Psychic's Handbook and fell in love with their feat and skill based system, that works for just about any setting from Mercede Lackey's Valdemar to futuristinc X-Men if you tap into the D20 Modern rules. It could also be easily used for a D20 version of Trinity, White Wolfs psionic sci-fi setting. Bar none the best thing I've purchased since the 3.5 conversion.

 

[Hardhead]

Problems i have with 3E psionics that, AFAIK, aren't changed in 3.5E psionics:
First, things that i think violate the nature of "psychic powers", and would be wrong no matter what system:

• displays. IMHO, the fact that there's no clue to who's the psychic except that they're kinda distracted is iconic of psionic powers. Don't balance that by eliminating it, balance it in some way that doesn't destroy the psychic-ness of the powers. Such as limiting what they can do to iconicly psychic stuff.

In 3.5 you can hide your manifestation with a Concentration check, DC 20. So, more or less, any sufficiently high level psion can never have manifestations again.

transparent magic/psionics interaction. Though, of course, that one's trivial to fix yourself.

Bleh. I agree with others that psionics is just as different from arcane magic as divine magic is. If you want to make all three non-transparent, then fine. Makes sense. But not just psionics.

the metacreativity discipline as a whole, and damn near every power within it (a few would be ok, if the flavor text was changed and they were assigned to a different discipline). If psionics can do that sort of stuff at all, it should be *very* difficult--there shouldn't be anything to put in a metacreativity discipline below the equivalent of about a 7th level power/spell, so it should just be part of the psychokinesis or maybe psychoportation disciplines.

*shrug* It reminds me of forcefields put up by Jean Grey. How is that a psychic power? I have no idea. But it's in flavor for some people. So hey. I just don't take powers like Polymorph or Astral Construct for flavor reasons, and dont' worry about it.

mental stuff (especially clairsentience and telepathy/empathy) are too hard. That's what psychics are supposed to be good at, so the powers should be considerably easier/lower level than their magical counterparts.

Most of the time they are. Dominate Person as a 3rd level power?

the psychometabolism and psychoportation stuff that's available is too flashy at too low of a level.

I'd probably agree here. But again, I think of Jean Grey flying around and figure, "Oh well."

 

[I'm A Banana]

Bottom line for me is this. When I think about psychic powers, i think about powers that are, for the most part, invisible or intangible. Someone who can read thoughts, send messages, see distant places, or even predict the future. At its flashiest, they manipulate things in their environment. They can manipulate certain elements (especially fire). They can even go on the offensive, attacking someone from within their own mind. Sometimes they can even give psychic energy physical form, or perform stunts of the mind and body that few could duplicate.

Wizards, Clerics, Bards, Sorcerers......these guys already do that. Why d'you need a psionic guy to do the same thing? And why can't they do the same thing that Wizards can do in any other department?

I mean, it's perfectly possible to play any other major spellcasting class as this kind of character. So unless psioincs braught something new or something more to the table, they'd be pointless in a world where the normal classes also existed.

 

[Altalazar]

I really liked the 2E psionics. I had a character I played who was a psi from that and really enjoyed it.

3E just bugs me in some ways - I mean, I allowed it, but it seems like they wanted to cram it into a sorcerer mold and add all sorts of strange limitations to it - the visible effects is just annoying. That goes against the whole grain of what psi is about. It isn't flashy. It is the power of the mind.

But I'll take a look at the new one and decide if I like it as much as 2E - probably won't, but that won't necessarily stop me from using it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I do think that the psion is too similar to the sorc, and there needs to be some big things making them different......I think the XPH is helping that in a lot of ways (Concentration to hide manifestations, the idea of a medatative focus, no 'crystal familiar').